I WANT YOUR MAPS
Quote from west131087 on January 17, 2013, 4:11 pmnpc_msleeper_boss wrote:I am trying to give you constructive support. I think that if you want the really top-tier mappers to design puzzles for your game, you're going to have to pony up more than $20 for a map.Look at it this way. Most of the better quality maps here have, at minimum, 100 hours put into them. Building, detailing, lighting, and an amazing amount of testing. So if someone puts 100 hours into making a map, and you want to give them $20 for it, you are basically paying them $0.20/hr for their work.
I can't think of anyone here, especially anyone with a map in the "Spotlight" category, who would be happy working for $1.60 a day.
You misunderstood me. I say about $10-20 per map for simple single map drawings. For example lets look on Portal 1 single player or first half of Portal 2 maps (before antigravity beam), it is really easy to make such maps but i need variety. IMPORTANT Also you can publish your mappack and split the income from selling it through in-app in gamestore.
Look at it this way. Most of the better quality maps here have, at minimum, 100 hours put into them. Building, detailing, lighting, and an amazing amount of testing. So if someone puts 100 hours into making a map, and you want to give them $20 for it, you are basically paying them $0.20/hr for their work.
I can't think of anyone here, especially anyone with a map in the "Spotlight" category, who would be happy working for $1.60 a day.
You misunderstood me. I say about $10-20 per map for simple single map drawings. For example lets look on Portal 1 single player or first half of Portal 2 maps (before antigravity beam), it is really easy to make such maps but i need variety. IMPORTANT Also you can publish your mappack and split the income from selling it through in-app in gamestore.
Quote from FelixGriffin on January 17, 2013, 4:41 pmI'm also interested, send me a PM with details about the type of maps you need. But note that I mostly do new test elements, not puzzles with original ones.
I'm also interested, send me a PM with details about the type of maps you need. But note that I mostly do new test elements, not puzzles with original ones.
Quote from Lpfreaky90 on January 17, 2013, 4:55 pmwest131087 wrote:You misunderstood me. I say about $10-20 per map for simple single map drawings. For example lets look on Portal 1 single player or first half of Portal 2 maps (before antigravity beam), it is really easy to make such maps but i need variety. IMPORTANT Also you can publish your mappack and split the income from selling it through in-app in gamestore.I think you make a small mistake here; a simple drawing isn't always gonna do it, specially on a device like a phone the design should be simple and your goal should always be in sight. To be honest I'd say a puzzle on a phone shouldn't take longer than 3-4 minutes to solve and should never rely on fast actions. Since you've already released your product you might have had some feedback on your maps already.
My point is; to make an easy chamber you need an experienced mapper. A person that understands how people play portal, a person who understands what tricks can be used to guide the player without giving the solution away and make a nice puzzle, the way items can interact with each other etc. To be honest, the level I saw on the phone didn't look like a level I'd enjoy, but I could be wrong. I'll have a playthrough and give me my thoughts about the puzzles and the game itself after I'm done with it.
I think you make a small mistake here; a simple drawing isn't always gonna do it, specially on a device like a phone the design should be simple and your goal should always be in sight. To be honest I'd say a puzzle on a phone shouldn't take longer than 3-4 minutes to solve and should never rely on fast actions. Since you've already released your product you might have had some feedback on your maps already.
My point is; to make an easy chamber you need an experienced mapper. A person that understands how people play portal, a person who understands what tricks can be used to guide the player without giving the solution away and make a nice puzzle, the way items can interact with each other etc. To be honest, the level I saw on the phone didn't look like a level I'd enjoy, but I could be wrong. I'll have a playthrough and give me my thoughts about the puzzles and the game itself after I'm done with it.
Quote from msleeper on January 17, 2013, 5:00 pmIt's pretty incredibly insulting to tell people that their work is "easy".
It's pretty incredibly insulting to tell people that their work is "easy".
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Quote from west131087 on January 17, 2013, 5:13 pmnpc_msleeper_boss wrote:It's pretty incredibly insulting to tell people that their work is "easy".@npc_msleeper_boss Sorry if you think i told something wrong, but I can't understand why this topic is making you hurt so much
@npc_msleeper_boss Sorry if you think i told something wrong, but I can't understand why this topic is making you hurt so much
Quote from msleeper on January 17, 2013, 5:22 pm
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Quote from Lpfreaky90 on January 17, 2013, 5:30 pmwest131087 wrote:npc_msleeper_boss wrote:It's pretty incredibly insulting to tell people that their work is "easy".@npc_msleeper_boss Sorry if you think i told something wrong, but I can't understand why this topic is making you hurt so much
I suppose it's because level design is a lot harder than people think and there's a lot more to it than "just making a level". Take for example a completely other game:
Assassin's creed: super simple:
1) get your guy to be able to jump around on scenery (that's really easy, prince of persia could do that too)
2) get some textures, super easy, you can just make a few drawings each hour.
3) get some new models, that might take a day or two
4) write a nice story, well give it a week.
5) get some music
6) Record the voice lines, shouldn't take longer than a week.
7) Put some buildings down and done.So on first sight it looks like you could make a game a-la- assassin's creed in about three weeks, with a team of like 10 people. Well, give them $20,-/hour 10 hours/day... that's a budget of 20x10x7x3x10 = $42,000,-
But yea... quite obviously that's not the time scale, the money, the team you're looking at for a game like that. Level design is often underestimated.
To give you another example, last Halloween Zivi7, Mevious and I have released a map called Aperture Halloween, it's a bunch of rooms, which can be solved in under 10 minutes if you know what you're supposed to do. There were some simple puzzles in to show some concepts and a few harder puzzles. Some nice detailing etc. How much time do you think that took the three of us? [spoiler]at least 300 hours in total[/spoiler]
And to be honest: one of the hardest things to come up with is a simple thing. A thing that introduces something you've been playing with for ages. For portal 2 they could've just stick with the original introduction levels, but they didn't. They changed it in such a way that it's much clearer to new players what's happening.
@npc_msleeper_boss Sorry if you think i told something wrong, but I can't understand why this topic is making you hurt so much
I suppose it's because level design is a lot harder than people think and there's a lot more to it than "just making a level". Take for example a completely other game:
Assassin's creed: super simple:
1) get your guy to be able to jump around on scenery (that's really easy, prince of persia could do that too)
2) get some textures, super easy, you can just make a few drawings each hour.
3) get some new models, that might take a day or two
4) write a nice story, well give it a week.
5) get some music
6) Record the voice lines, shouldn't take longer than a week.
7) Put some buildings down and done.
So on first sight it looks like you could make a game a-la- assassin's creed in about three weeks, with a team of like 10 people. Well, give them $20,-/hour 10 hours/day... that's a budget of 20x10x7x3x10 = $42,000,-
But yea... quite obviously that's not the time scale, the money, the team you're looking at for a game like that. Level design is often underestimated.
To give you another example, last Halloween Zivi7, Mevious and I have released a map called Aperture Halloween, it's a bunch of rooms, which can be solved in under 10 minutes if you know what you're supposed to do. There were some simple puzzles in to show some concepts and a few harder puzzles. Some nice detailing etc. How much time do you think that took the three of us?
And to be honest: one of the hardest things to come up with is a simple thing. A thing that introduces something you've been playing with for ages. For portal 2 they could've just stick with the original introduction levels, but they didn't. They changed it in such a way that it's much clearer to new players what's happening.
Quote from west131087 on January 17, 2013, 5:40 pm@Lpfreaky90 sent you pm
@Lpfreaky90 sent you pm
Quote from west131087 on January 17, 2013, 5:47 pmI have updated first post, please read it before continue our talks.
I have updated first post, please read it before continue our talks.
Quote from msleeper on January 17, 2013, 5:49 pmYou're the one who "doesn't understand", not us. You don't think people are worth enough money for their time. So don't expect to get a lot of people wanting to help you.
You're the one who "doesn't understand", not us. You don't think people are worth enough money for their time. So don't expect to get a lot of people wanting to help you.
Please do not Private Message me for assistance. Post a thread if you have questions or concerns.
If you need to contact the staff privately, contact the Global Moderators via Discord.