Quote from Shane on May 17, 2011, 11:08 am

In version 1.0 I used the trick of [spoiler]stacking the 3 cubes I already had to get the cube on the pedestal beneath the glass floor. I find the fact that you closed this alternative route off a bit disappointing, as having to deal with the bouncing cube covered in gel is annoying[/spoiler]

Quote from Ruien on May 17, 2011, 11:32 am

Shane wrote:

In version 1.0 I used the trick of [spoiler]stacking the 3 cubes I already had to get the cube on the pedestal beneath the glass floor. I find the fact that you closed this alternative route off a bit disappointing, as having to deal with the bouncing cube covered in gel is annoying[/spoiler]

I agree. However, people were throwing boxes at it and getting it way too early. Technically as long as it's restricted to being the 4th cube, pretty much any method should be legal.

Can you think of a way to make the current map allow for this possibility and still ensure that it's the 4th box? If so, I'd be happy to put that in. The more solutions the better, as long as they reward creativity.

Edit: wow, you played 1.0 Sorry to have put you through that!

Quote from Neoxx on May 17, 2011, 12:51 pm

Ruien wrote:

Quote:

This gave me an idea.... in the room with the emancipation grills and the cube on a platform, why not just replace those grilles with metal grates? I assume the idea behind them [spoiler]is to prevent the player from using the excursion funnel to go directly to the cube and grab it.[/spoiler] Using grates would have the same effect, but not be confusing as to if the cube will be killed or not.

It would also have a better aesthetic if that area was sectioned off completely with grates with an actual door leading into it. It would further reinforce that [spoiler]you cant use the funnel to get to the cube, but that you have to use the gel on it[/spoiler].

Yes, these ideas would work. However, it represents a design paradigm that's a bit different, and I haven't decided which is better yet. I'd like your opinion:

opinion
[spoiler]On one hand, I have the blue gel fall onto the ground in front of the portal surface in that room. This gives the player the false idea that they should try jumping through, and to focus on that gel on the ground. I could point the player in the right direction by adding a grille on the floor so that the gel does not remain there. This would point the player to think of something else ("why would he put gel here if i can't even use it on the floor?"). However, doing what I did, I am rewarding outside-the-box thinking.

The emancipation fields are the same way. At first it looks like you might be able to fling yourself quickly through the fields, sacrifice the portals, and get the box. Putting a grating instead would immediately kill this idea and again point the player in the right direction.

I personally like the the idea of giving the player wrong first impressions so that they grow accustomed to thinking of all of the possible uses of an item as they progress through the map. Good example? Holding the blue box in the reverse excursion funnel while doing other things. No one thinks of doing that immediately upon encountering an excursion funnel.

Or, do you think this map would benefit more from closing off wrong solutions to help the player more quickly reach a more fruitful outcome?[/spoiler]

Reply
[spoiler]I do like the idea of giving wrong first impressions. I see where you were coming from with the fling/bounce solution, which I actually tried. Portaled up to the top then tried jumping off of the gel to the box. When I realized that I needed the gel to be further out from the wall to achieve this I thought of the funnel, THEN came to the realization of just pushing the gel to the box and having it jump off. So, the fact that you gave me the idea of bouncing over there led my train of thought to using the funnels to push the gel on it.

The only issue here is that if the player thinks of this, he also considers that theres emancipation grilles very close by that could fizzle his cube when it bounces around like crazy, which may falsely dissuade them from trying it. That is where your good idea has its downfall. I love misrepresenting things in order to catch people on a false assumption, but having the correct solution not seem feasible makes it very tedious.[/spoiler]

4th Cube
[spoiler]This is the part of the puzzle I despised. I knew I had to get the bouncy cube to the room with the 4th cube in it, but I had trouble travelling with the bouncy cube. I'd have to leave the cube in the starting room to make the portals, but when I'd come to get it I'd have to sit on the bridge and wait for it to cross my path. Once it even bounced out of the room and I just gave up there and re-loaded my save. It seems like the cage is meant to hold the bouncy cube, but how am I supposed to make the light bridge portals AND get the cube out of there when I need it?[/spoiler]

Quote from Ruien on May 17, 2011, 9:47 pm

Reply to Neoxx:

Quote:

The only issue here is that if the player thinks of this, [spoiler]he also considers that theres emancipation grilles very close by that could fizzle his cube when it bounces around like crazy, which may falsely dissuade them from trying it. That is where your good idea has its downfall. I love misrepresenting things in order to catch people on a false assumption, but having the correct solution not seem feasible makes it very tedious.[/spoiler]

This is a good point. I tried to make the point clear that the e-fields would not fizzle boxes, but it is becoming clearer that this is not necessarily a good idea. Portal2 single player really should have had a "portal cleanser" but NOT "box fizzler" element that the user would be familiar with already. The portal cleanser has a lot of creative uses independent from the box fizzler, and the SDK makes it easy to create both. I wonder if I modify the color or something, I can make it more intuitive that these are not normal fizzlers. I intend to continue using the portal cleanser throughout my designs.

Quote:

This is the part of the puzzle I despised. [spoiler]I knew I had to get the bouncy cube to the room with the 4th cube in it, but I had trouble travelling with the bouncy cube. I'd have to leave the cube in the starting room to make the portals, but when I'd come to get it I'd have to sit on the bridge and wait for it to cross my path. Once it even bounced out of the room and I just gave up there and re-loaded my save.[/spoiler]

4th box
[spoiler]This is another example of incorrect initial assumptions. I want the player to assume that they should be using the light bridge to cross the gap in the second room (just like how they crossed it the first time), but having a bouncy blue box makes that hard. So what's the real correct solution? To use the tractor beam instead of the light bridge for that same section. This is one of the most subtle outside-the-box-thinking elements that I was able to apply. Did you take a look at the Intended Solution to see how I did that part?[/spoiler]

Quote:

It seems like the cage is meant to [spoiler]hold the bouncy cube[/spoiler], but how am I supposed to make the light bridge portals AND [spoiler]get the cube out of there when I need it[/spoiler]?

solution
[spoiler]Since you would have used the tractor beam to conveniently get it to the pit to knock down the other box already, you can safely store it inside of this cage while doing other things, and then suck it out from the main room with the reverse tractor beam when you need it.[/spoiler]

Quote from ToasterUK on May 19, 2011, 12:05 pm

Amazing map, spent a while working it out and enjoyed every moment.

Keep up the good work

Quote from carlymx on May 22, 2011, 7:58 am

Magnifico, Muy buen trabajo.
Uno de los mejores mapas de la comunidad que he jugado.
Dif?cil pero l?gico.
Tarde 2 horas en resolverlo xD

La Prueba xD

http://imageshack.us/m/814/9071/spengineerv1200000.jpg

Un Saludo.

PD: Haz mas como este.

Quote from Ruien on May 22, 2011, 9:23 am

????????~~~ (I can speak Chinese but not Spanish)

But, I think you said you solved it in 2 hours. That's phenomenal! Way to go! =D

And I am very happy you liked it!

Quote from carlymx on May 22, 2011, 5:07 pm

[ES]
Hola.

Dec?a, que era magnifico el mapa, un trabajo excelente.
?Eres Ingeniero?
Me gustar?a jugar a mas mapas tuyos.
Tienes un estilo interesante.
?Tienes pensado hacer m?s mapas?

Un Saludo.

[ENG (Traslation by Google xD)]

Hello.

I, said that the map was magnificent, an excellent job.
Are you an engineer?
I would like to play more maps yours.
You have an interesting style.
Do you plan to make more maps?

A greeting.

Quote from Ruien on May 22, 2011, 10:48 pm

Thank you

Yes, I am an electrical engineer.

I am excited to make more maps after Engineer is finished.