Quote from portal2tenacious on June 14, 2012, 12:09 am

Maybe I should just post it on the workshop. Does that sparkle with everybody? Lots of those need ninja skills to solve anyway. *cough cough- unorthodox *cough

Quote from Lpfreaky90 on June 14, 2012, 12:43 am

portal2tenacious wrote:

Maybe I should just post it on the workshop. Does that sparkle with everybody? Lots of those need ninja skills to solve anyway. *cough cough- unorthodox *cough

I guess some people like it some don't. Same here as also on the workshop though I think that on average the people here on twp are more skilled than in the workshop.

Ps, I added a poll to your first post to get a quick overview

Quote from Kaleido on June 14, 2012, 2:15 am

bhop is... weird in p2. it doesnt really work like it does in other games, so i dont really like doing it. I hve no idea what exfu is..

A map like this can only really 'work' if it's VERY satisfying to solve. You have to have some sort of huge payoff for trying so hard IMO

(for example, take jump maps in CS. you had to engine glitch the shit out of those to solve them, but usually at the end, you get an AWP and a nice overwatch on the rest of the level, so you can just start blasting all the tryhards and laughing.. VERY satisfying)

if i do a bunch of crazy hard glitching and the end result is 'get in this elevator' i'll be really pissed.

Quote from josepezdj on June 14, 2012, 2:47 am

I'm sorry but I voted "Hate it" without any doubt. I like hard maps, many ppl know that, but only because I think it's much more difficult and clever to create twisted puzzles and I admire how puzzlemakers can use the game mechanics to continue exploring this game's possibilities and make you think for a while. There are many examples of very thoughtful hard maps that I enjoyed solving... but I'm sorry I can't see the challenge or the interest in breaking the rules of the game and the mechanics of the puzzles...

Also:

npc_msleeper_boss wrote:

Maps that rely on engine glitches such as these are strongly discouraged. You will severely limit your player base of people who will complete, not to mention enjoy, your maps. I know that I, personally, would instantly rate a map 0/5 if it requires stuff like this. People play Portal to solve puzzles, not to glitch the engine.

Can you upload it? Sure. Will we remove it? No. Will we feel sorry for you when everyone tells you it's an awful map? Not a chance.

Amen.

Quote from Xtreger on June 14, 2012, 3:18 am

npc_msleeper_boss wrote:

Maps that rely on engine glitches such as these are strongly discouraged. You will severely limit your player base of people who will complete, not to mention enjoy, your maps. I know that I, personally, would instantly rate a map 0/5 if it requires stuff like this. People play Portal to solve puzzles, not to glitch the engine.

Out of curiosity: if there's a map that requires engine-glitch using on one hand, and another map that is very hard to the point of being frustrating to many players (but this does not have ninja moves) on the other, and BOTH maps have properly written descriptions as to the target audience, would you still give these maps a low rating?

Kaleido wrote:

...I hve no idea what exfu is...(for example, take jump maps in CS. you had to engine glitch the shit out of those to solve them, but usually at the end, you get an AWP and a nice overwatch on the rest of the level, so you can just start blasting all the tryhards and laughing.. VERY satisfying)

You're very right about the jump maps - that's the kind of satisfaction I'd expect after pulling off ninja moves
BTW exfu means exit funnel glitch

Quote from ChickenMobile on June 14, 2012, 3:54 am

npc_msleeper_boss wrote:

chickenmobile wrote:

Please revoke my position as a staff member.

Okay.

Ouch

Xtreger wrote:

BTW exfu means exit funnel glitch

Still haven't fixed that one? Tsk valve.

Quote from josepezdj on June 14, 2012, 5:36 am

Xtreger wrote:

Out of curiosity: if there's a map that requires engine-glitch using on one hand, and another map that is very hard to the point of being frustrating to many players (but this does not have ninja moves) on the other, and BOTH maps have properly written descriptions as to the target audience, would you still give these maps a low rating?

Xtreger, even though it seems that this question goes to msleeper, let me tell you my opinion. If you warn the player about it and indeed you specifically build a map which puzzles are all based in glitches saying something like "go and find all the glitches to get through", first of all I think you should teach all the players which are all glitches you'll use because for example me, I don't even know more than 2 (because I hate them), and indeed, I don't have any fun performing them...

On the other hand, regarding that other map you mention without glitches that many players get frustrated, well it will depend on WHY players get frustrated: most of the maps I like which I really enjoy solving are so frustrating to other players because they're twisted, but they're also clever. As an example allow me to recommend the latest one Greykarel made, was incredibly intelligent but some player posted it was not fun and such.

Quote from Xtreger on June 14, 2012, 9:37 am

josepezdj wrote:

On the other hand, regarding that other map you mention without glitches that many players get frustrated, well it will depend on WHY players get frustrated: most of the maps I like which I really enjoy solving are so frustrating to other players because they're twisted, but they're also clever.

Yes, as you say I meant "frustrating" in the sense of being quite difficult. It is unavoidable that there will exist people who are frustrated by such maps.

Quote from josepezdj on June 14, 2012, 11:08 am

But X, still, there are many senses for the concept 'difficulty'. IMHO a puzzle game's difficulty should be right in finding a solution after a certain statements have been already well-defined... it's like defining clearly the rules, set the scenario, make the player experience the "aha-moment"... Right there is where I find this game fascinating. Difficulty shouldn't be put in glitchy maneuvers, again only IMO.

I don't even see any fun or difficulty in non-glitchy but "bizarre" maneuvers, like based in timers, quick sequences in a short time, or very accurate angles of a rotating reflector cube while it is coming out and getting into 2 floor portals!

I mean difficulty in the sense of squeezing your brain to find the unique logical sequence of steps that will allow you to get to the exit... have you played Mevious PTI maps? damn, those are really puzzles!! They are so challenging because each takes you quite a while to find out what to do, the solution is not easy to find at a first sight, indeed, even when those maps are ridiculously small, you have to explore around even hours in some of them to figure out what to do and in which order.

Or Chander's maps... everything there is FAIR, it's only that he likes to find awesome new ways of playing with the puzzle elements...

Come on! let's try all to make good puzzles!