Quote from msleeper on June 27, 2012, 11:03 pm

My point was that 12 year olds aren't simpletons; you are capable of understanding complex story telling elements at that age. And for Logic to say that kids that age can't is doing a disservice to them.

Basically: just because you were dumb when you were 12, doesn't mean all 12 year olds are. Nor that we shouldn't hold them to a higher standard of maturity just because of their age.

Quote from El Farmerino on June 28, 2012, 10:08 am

MasterLagger wrote:

But yeah, if someone prefers killing aliens over playing a proper game, something's wrong with them.

Words cannot express how much I love the Half-Life series, and I still think of Half-Life 2 as the perfect example of how to orchestrate a video game narrative; the story itself being revealed in an interactive and immersive way that encourages and rewards player exploration of the game world. That said, one of my favourite things about the series is that it never lets the story get in the way of the joys of killing aliens and zombies in a variety of ways. Nothing wrong with that.

If people play Half-Life 2 and all they get out of it is that it was a cool game about killing aliens with some awesome weapons, then that's fine. That's what it is, at heart, no matter how brilliantly handled the story side may be. It might seem to me like they're missing out, but I'm sure they give as much of a fuck about my opinion as I do about anyone else's. I also disagree with the notion that a strong narrative is essential for a great game. I love Quake III every bit as much as Bioshock.

Quote from MasterLagger on June 28, 2012, 1:41 pm

El Farmerino wrote:

MasterLagger wrote:

But yeah, if someone prefers killing aliens over playing a proper game, something's wrong with them.

Words cannot express how much I love the Half-Life series, and I still think of Half-Life 2 as the perfect example of how to orchestrate a video game narrative; the story itself being revealed in an interactive and immersive way that encourages and rewards player exploration of the game world. That said, one of my favourite things about the series is that it never lets the story get in the way of the joys of killing aliens and zombies in a variety of ways. Nothing wrong with that.

I was responding to msleeper's Halo comment. I like destroying the bad guys as much as anyone does, but my point is that combat alone doesn't make a game good (but it is a important factor). I was referring to the crazy people that are drawn to violence, although I should have been more specific earlier.

Quote from chimera201 on June 29, 2012, 3:59 am

A lot of my friends do not understand why I appreciate HL sooo much. Now I have something to convince them . Thanks.

Also putting the can in the bin part introduced the game physics and interaction with world objects(well there was jumping on the crate to get to the window part) - a technical thing presented in a realistic way. You can see the citadel tower throughout the game from all angles. The best part really was Dr. Kliener getting startled when portal out of the room near the window.

Game of the decade

Quote from El Farmerino on June 29, 2012, 8:44 am

MasterLagger wrote:

I like destroying the bad guys as much as anyone does, but my point is that combat alone doesn't make a game good (but it is a important factor).

Well, my point was that I disagree - there are plenty of games that are pretty much solely based on combat that I loved, such as Quake III, Counter Strike, Serious Sam, Painkiller, Hard Reset... (I realise those last few have sort-of narratives, but ones that can and should be ignored for the sake of general sanity). I don't think games based around pure combat mechanics are somehow intrinsically worth less than plot, character or theme driven pieces, or that Logic should be chided for his preference of the former - a sensibility that has clearly changed since, at any rate. It annoys me that gaming these days is so often held up to the same standards as film and literature, when it is clearly a whole other beast entirely (what would be the literary equivalent of Tetris?) I do kind of agree with the notion that the industry's obsession with violence and explosions is to its detriment, but then Half-Life is as guilty as any in that regard - simply being the best at it is no absolution....

A far more detrimental problem with the industry right now, IMO, is the seeming need to push narrative content over and above gameplay in a lot of big titles; for every Half-Life 2 there are about 10 Metal Gear Solid 4's - games with interminable amounts of badly written cutscene exposition shoehorned in at the expense of gameplay time and any kind of pacing. The most irritating word tossed about in game development these days, for my money, is 'cinematic', because what it really means is static and non-interactive. The beauty of HL2 was that its story wasn't told to you; you discovered it for yourself, and the more you put into the game the more you got out. That's exactly how it should be done, and I don't think it's been done better before or since.

Quote from Logic on June 29, 2012, 2:52 pm

El Farmerino wrote:

I don't think games based around pure combat mechanics are somehow intrinsically worth less than plot, character or theme driven pieces, or that Logic should be chided for his preference of the former - a sensibility that has clearly changed since, at any rate.

Thank you.

I WAS stupid not to realize the piece of gold I had standing by my Xbox for so many years. I didn't think about video games that way back then, but I really, really appreciate a good storyline today, much thanks to this video. That's what I wanted to share.

Most 12 year olds today are stuck in the Call of Duty swamp and maybe I was stuck in the Halo swamp back when I was 12. But if missing a great storyline on my first playthrough or changing my mind on something makes me the worst type of gamer out there then I don't know how the world thinks...

Quote from msleeper on June 29, 2012, 4:44 pm

I'm not sure how many different ways I can reiterate my point without literally repeating myself or copy and pasting my responses, so whatever.

Quote from El Farmerino on June 29, 2012, 9:26 pm

Well, I kind of got sidetracked with ML, but going back to this:

npc_msleeper_boss wrote:

As a game developer and as a story teller, I have zero sympathy for people who would rather "blow up aliens in Halo" than enjoy a serious game. Going back to the egoraptor, you are why games don't deserve to be taken as seriously as they can be and should some day. And I don't care if that hurts your widdle feewings.

I do see what you're saying, and as an avid gamer myself it is sometimes frustrating that certain people look down on the medium as just a form of entertainment without artistic merit, but then that's a problem with those people and their ignorant mindsets; I don't lay the blame at the door of gamers who like their games big and stupid. Similarly I don't believe Michael Bay fans are killing the film industry, or that Lady Gaga fans are a drain on the music industry, or that Dan Brown readers are really the spawn of Satan himself (well, maybe the last one). The thing is, even though I absolutely fucking loathe the output of all the 'artists' I just mentioned, I don't think their existence is somehow causing everything else that gets made to somehow lower in quality, or stopping people from appreciating all the fantastic stuff that is produced, all the time. They're popular because most people like stupid shit. This is true of everything, everywhere, and has been and will be forever. But as long as there are great games being made and I'm allowed to have my opinion that all of the above is a huge pile of gash, I don't care. As Marie Antoinette said - "Let them eat their shit, if they like it so much".

And there is fantastic stuff being produced all the time. Last year was an amazing year for games, and this year is shaping up to be the same. I also think that in an era where videogames have their own set of BAFTA awards we're kind of past the 'games are for kids' stage. Furthermore, sometimes I really like to kick back and blow up some aliens. Not in Halo, though.

Anyway, let's just agree that Half-Life is awesome and if you play it and still don't think so you should just go eat some more shit.

Quote from MasterLagger on June 29, 2012, 10:54 pm

Half-Life is awesome. Who's Marie Antoinette?