Quote from Ruien on May 15, 2011, 3:22 am

If you get stuck and need some help, just ask here. I or any other fabulous forum-goer will respond with a hint and/or solution in a labeled spoiler tag:

Hint
[spoiler]This is a small hint to point you in the right direction.[/spoiler]
Big Hint
[spoiler]This is a spoiler hint.[/spoiler]
Solution
[spoiler]This is the intended solution.[/spoiler]

Edit: updated to using bigspoiler tags. Thanks msleeper!

Quote from msleeper on May 15, 2011, 3:36 am

Don't Forget
[spoiler]You can put big lengthy spoilers in bigspoiler tags. You can put images and even Youtube videos in here![/spoiler]

Quote from cajuncook on May 15, 2011, 4:16 am

So I can collect [spoiler]three of the four cubes, but not the one in the emancipation field room. I'm guessing I will have to abandon my light bridge at that point and use the repulsion gel from a height[/spoiler]... but then [spoiler]what about the laser[/spoiler]? Can't see any way to that. I also don't understand [spoiler]what the second button in the hallway before the emancipation field room is for[/spoiler].

Quote from Nacimota on May 15, 2011, 4:27 am

I only got about half-way through this map ([spoiler]I got the first three cubes but couldn't figure out what to do next[/spoiler]).

First off let me just say - as I did the other day regarding The Unknown by KLJF22 - that the use of backtracking in the map is good design sense; you're making the most of the level by forcing players to go back and forth between chambers.

Having said that, I see a number of design problems. Please decrease the riser height of the stairs; they are an absolute bitch to keep jumping up all the time.

Also, while not strictly necessary, indicator lights are an important element of most portal maps. They quickly remind the player what buttons link to each element of the puzzle and so forth. It's not uncommon to go for a "press the button to see what it does" approach, but to be honest, there are so many more appropriate ways of making a puzzle more challenging than removing indicators. There are a lot of floor buttons in your map, and it sometimes took me a minute or two to realize what each one does. For instance, [spoiler]I thought the two buttons next to the excursion funnel where both to turn it on (that is, you cant turn it on without having both buttons pressed), because I stepped on the reverse button first (which did nothing while it was off) then put a cube on the button that turns it on[/spoiler]. It's up to you; I think they should be a definate inclusion in a map as complex as this one.

The glass covering the walls; I imagine that was just to stop the player from portaling? It's an interesting idea but they are kind of hard to see at times and weren't immediately noticeable from a distance. For that reason, I think you should stick to the non-portalable walls for those areas.

There's also a few areas in the map where you can get stuck ([spoiler]like under the laser[/spoiler]) and there doesn't seem to be a way out; this should definately be avoided as much as possible.

Overall it's an interesting map, enough so to keep me playing for a good half-hour, but I think you should work on refining the overall design.

Quote from Ruien on May 15, 2011, 4:45 am

cajuncook wrote:

So I can collect [spoiler]three of the four cubes, but not the one in the emancipation field room. I'm guessing I will have to abandon my light bridge at that point and use the repulsion gel from a height[/spoiler]... but then [spoiler]what about the laser[/spoiler]? Can't see any way to that. I also don't understand [spoiler]what the second button in the hallway before the emancipation field room is for[/spoiler].

#1.) Okay, it looks like this map has a problem.

[spoiler]The cube in the emancipation field room should be Box #3. It should be impossible to get the box on the pedestal under the glass until this box has been obtained. Can you tell me how you did it?[/spoiler]

As for your questions:

#1.)

I also don't understand what the second button in the hallway before the emancipation field room is for.

This is not a spoiler. I guess I'll need to add indicator lights to make this clear. This button rotates the back of the tractor beam tube so that you can place a portal there.

#2.)

So I can collect [spoiler]three of the four cubes, but not the one in the emancipation field room. I'm guessing I will have to abandon my light bridge at that point and use the repulsion gel from a height[/spoiler]

This should be the 3rd box, not the 4th box. So, you should only have 2 boxes to work with at this point. I will have to fix that.

Hint
[spoiler]Right.[/spoiler]
Big Hint
[spoiler]Right. The repulsion gel on the ground is misleading. Use the tractor beam instead.[/spoiler]
Solution
[spoiler]Right. The repulsion gel on the ground is misleading. Place a portal inside this room, then take the box sitting on the button for this room's door and place it onto the tractor-beam reversal button. Ride the tractor beam into this room and jump out before hitting the emancipation grill. Then use the tractor beam to put blue gel on the box.[/spoiler]

#3.) what about the laser

Hint
[spoiler]There is a portal panel above the laser.[/spoiler]
Big Hint
[spoiler]Use the tractor beam in reverse mode to pull yourself up.[/spoiler]
Solution
[spoiler]Use the tractor beam in reverse mode, and carry a box with you. Suck yourself back while using the box to block the laser beam.[/spoiler]

Quote from Thursaz on May 15, 2011, 4:50 am

Ruien- I got that [spoiler]first cube as well.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Mostly by throwing my cube at it repeatedly until I got it to the edge. Then I used it as a step to grab the cube and pull it down. xD[/spoiler]

Actually, I have all [spoiler]four cubes[/spoiler] now and no clue what to do. *goes to continue trying to work it out*

Also, I just read the second hint you gave. That's not how I [spoiler]got the cube.[/spoiler]

I used the [spoiler]repulsion gel to gain height, then threw my cube at it again. I know, my solution to everything is throwing cubes. I'm a stubborn dolt and if I can't do something I just try harder. xD[/spoiler]

Quote from Ruien on May 15, 2011, 4:58 am

Nacimota,

Thanks for the comments. First, regarding your comment "to be honest, there are so many more appropriate ways of making a puzzle more challenging than removing indicators."

Indeed! I work a lot and haven't had time to add them in yet. I will definitely add both indicators and pictures to show what the items do. If figuring out what a button is intended to do is the main design goal of a map, then we have a problem.

Also, you said that you got the first 3 boxes but then couldn't figure out what to do next. Can you tell me which 3 boxes you did get? If you are going according to the Intended Solution (my ultimate design goal), this would be:

[spoiler]Box #1: Box at bottom of pit near first room
Box #2: Box in glass construct near excursion funnel
Box #3: Box in emancipation field room
Box #4: Box at top of pedestal in the pit near the first room[/spoiler]

Quote:

Please decrease the riser height of the stairs; they are an absolute bitch to keep jumping up all the time.

Indeed, another fine suggestion.

Quote:

The glass covering the walls; I imagine that was just to stop the player from portaling? It's an interesting idea but they are kind of hard to see at times and weren't immediately noticeable from a distance. For that reason, I think you should stick to the non-portalable walls for those areas.

Haha, this was my one attempt at visual design. You're right; i should swap it back to the other texture. I'll probably leave the glass there though because I think it looks cool.

Quote:

There's also a few areas in the map where you can get stuck ([spoiler]like under the laser[/spoiler]) and there doesn't seem to be a way out; this should definately be avoided as much as possible.

Get stuck [spoiler]"under the laser"[/spoiler]? Hmm, that definitely shouldn't be possible. I'll have to play around and see how you got down there. If you just mean "in the area near the laser", that's not a bug. That's a puzzle element.

However, you're right. Right now there are some pits that you can fall into that don't have trigger_hurt yet.

Quote from Ruien on May 15, 2011, 5:03 am

Thursaz wrote:

Ruien- I got that [spoiler]first cube as well.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Mostly by throwing my cube at it repeatedly until I got it to the edge. Then I used it as a step to grab the cube and pull it down. xD[/spoiler]

Ah! No, I will have to fix that. Figuring out how to get that cube correctly is supposed to be more than half the map!

In general, if you have to do crazy things that take multiple attempts ([spoiler]like throwing cubes in both cases[/spoiler]), it's not the intended solution. But thanks! This tells me what I'll need to fix.

Quote:

Actually, I have all [spoiler]four cubes[/spoiler] now and no clue what to do. *goes to continue trying to work it out*

You're almost there. Now you just need to [spoiler]get the laser[/spoiler] and you'll be done with the map.

Quote:

Also, I just read the second hint you gave. That's not how I got the cube.

I used the [spoiler]repulsion gel to gain height, then threw my cube at it again. I know, my solution to everything is throwing cubes. I'm a stubborn dolt and if I can't do something I just try harder. xD[/spoiler]

Okay, I have some ideas on how to make this impossible. Would you guys like a youtube video of the intended solution at some point?

Quote from Thursaz on May 15, 2011, 5:11 am

While we're at it, [spoiler]are we supposed to be able to shoot at the surface above the laser from the other room by stacking two cubes and shooting?[/spoiler]

...mind you this doesn't actually help me solve it at all. xD

EDIT: As for a youtube video, sure! I'll only watch it once I solve the map, in any case. I'll be sure to alert you if I happen to have solved anything else by means unintended.~