Please or Register to create posts and topics.

What everyone wants for a Portal or Portal 2 map

PreviousPage 2 of 2

I agree. Making a good map doesnt always mean slavishly copying valve.

Image
I think in terms of boolean variables. Generally, it makes things easier.
josepezdj wrote:
@msleeper:

Fair enough. I totally agree with each of the mentioned points. :thumbup:

:blah:

In my humble opinion...

Oh no, don't get me wrong. I have no problem with people developing their own style, as long as like you said, they're consistent and thorough with it. I'm not saying that EVERY map needs to fall in one of the visual styles from Portal or Portal 2. If you're going to come up with your own visual style, don't half ass it. The Colors series of maps is a great example of coming up with something new and pulling it off really well (even if there wasn't much in terms of consistency between maps, beyond the "colors" theme).

But again, don't do it as a gimmick either. Don't decide "I'm going to come up with my own special look because that alone will make my map cool" because it won't. The visual theme needs to be justified. Again, don't half ass it if you're going to go the extra mile to come up with something totally new.

EDIT
I want to clarify, re: using a mini-game or a "gimmick" in your map and where I said you don't need to reinvent the wheel. Again I'm not saying that no map ever should come up with a new mechanic, or a new "type" of puzzle, or anything like that. What I mean is that you shouldn't feel like your map NEEDS to have a new mechanic to have it stand out. When these things are done poorly, they really stand out and make a bad map just that much worse. But when it's done well, it's seamless. And it doesn't have to be "in your face" totally crazy or complex, it can be a new approach to existing game mechanics we're all familiar with.

EDIT 2
I thought of a specific example of a really bad use of "new visual style" from a (now removed) 2011 contest map. Allow me to quote myself:

msleeper wrote:
You know the old 1971 Willy Wonka and The Chocolate Factory, how the first 30 or 45 minutes of the movie is totally normal and is a happy Disney musical. And then they get on Willy Wonka's boat and there is this insane acid trip nightmare boat ride that comes out of fucking left field for no reason, and afterwards is never resolved or discussed ever again for the rest of the movie?

That's kind of how I feel about this section in your map.

Overall the map is tedious at best and completely broken at worst. We could not beat the last part of the puzzle in the first room, no matter how perfectly timed me and my partner both hit the final panels. I took one look at the second area and immediately skipped over it. Same with the third puzzle, I just simply did not have the patience to sit there and pray that I got lucky enough to get the spheres into the catchers.

The first room would be a pretty good puzzle in and of itself, if it worked properly. Unfortunately it doesn't.

[Important Threads] Forum Rules | Welcome to the new Thinking With Portals
Please do not Private Message me for assistance. Post a thread if you have questions or concerns.
If you need to contact the staff privately, contact the Global Moderators via Discord.

I'm telling you Msleeper, you would like my race map :lol: ... Just imagine it as a sp map when your playing it. Only the 4th map isn't puzzly. But I put in 4 different portal 2 styles in the 4 maps.

I really like it when people come up with there own style to a map. A recent map that I played that came up with a different style, even though it wasn't huge difference, was Impetuosity. That map had it's own unique feel to it.

Maps(Newest to Oldest): Storming the Castle / The Amazing Race / Wreaked / Mental Breakdown / Lost In Transition / Split / Mind Lock
Mapping Since May 21, 2011
msleeper wrote:
Oh no, don't get me wrong.

Hey, don't you worry, I didn't. I only took the chance to state what I wrote about the personal styles. I liked what you said above as a complement to your previous post. And that example you posted about that horrible personal style map on that picture was clear enough to understand even more what sucks and could be seen as "new".

I think that "new/personal style" is a concept much wide and not all of those personal styles will be good-looking only because they're new... Also, ofc focusing in developing a whole new style as a gimmick to boost the success of your map is worthless: I think this forum is compossed by clever and demanding people, not by naive lambs...

msleeper wrote:
I want a map with well designed and thought-out puzzles. Emphasis on the word "puzzles". This is a puzzle game, and puzzle gamers are going to be playing your map.

I've been playing to puzzle games all my life because it's my genre! (not only videogames, I've got a 60 puzzles collection made of wood and steel, with fascicles talking about history puzzle games and eminent people in this genre, etc etc.)... I love Portal. As in other threads have been discussed, there is an eternal controversy: puzzles VS aesthetics / hard maps VS other difficulty maps... Well, I like the balance, and I would like that people would consider both edges too. I'm working on a new look for my mappack altogether with funny + medium difficulty puzzles, and ofc I'm trying to detail all the maps the more I can in the (short) time I've got. Anyway I know that some people haven't got time enough for doing all it's in their mind (I'm one of them) and sometimes don't detail much their maps because otherwise the project could last like 3 years or so! (unless you are a kid that has been dropped out from school with plenty of time... ...there are some as well in this forum... ) and that is a totally respectable approach as well.

ImageImageImageImageImageuseful tools and stuff here on TWP :thumbup:
[spoiler]ImageImageImageImageImage[/spoiler]

My top three rules for making maps:

Rule #1: TEST IT! Over and over again!
Rule #2: If you aren't proud of your map, don't release it
Rule #3: Get some feedback (e.g. from friends) before you release it

Believe me, the players can see if you followed these rules.

josepezdj wrote:
difficulty

There's a lot to be said about the difference between making your map challenging without adding artificial difficulty. By that I mean, essentially, punishing the player for being imprecise or failing to do a certain task. The least amount of backtracking the better, since making the player do some long series of events over and over again is frustrating and not fun.

Portal gameplay is the art of the "aha! moment". The best puzzles are the ones where the player had to really analyze their surroundings and the elements at play, and not puzzles that rely on hair trigger reflexes.

As an aside, somewhat related note. Back in Portal 1, there was a lot of engine "tricks" using physics and how Portals worked. Depressingly, there arose a section of the community who built maps all around knowing tricks to the physics engine. And to an outsider who doesn't know or care about those things, and only knows that speedy thing goes in = speedy thing comes out, they were frustrating, impossible, and not fun.

As far as this community's collective brainpower, I definitely think there are multitudes of really creative people here. A lot of these long rants I write about "what makes a good map" are geared towards people who don't have a Spotlight map or a purple name - though everyone can do good to revisit the fundamentals of what makes good maps good.

[Important Threads] Forum Rules | Welcome to the new Thinking With Portals
Please do not Private Message me for assistance. Post a thread if you have questions or concerns.
If you need to contact the staff privately, contact the Global Moderators via Discord.

AMEN

ImageImageImageImageImageuseful tools and stuff here on TWP :thumbup:
[spoiler]ImageImageImageImageImage[/spoiler]

Agreed

First guy tells the second guy, "My head hurts!" The second guy replied, "Stop thinking so much!" Then the first guy says, "I think that what caused my problem in the first place!" The second guy says, "Then stop banging you head against the wall!"

ImageImageVDC User Page
PreviousPage 2 of 2