Quote from josepezdj on September 28, 2011, 4:26 am

Great map Jonatan!
As in your previous one, you are demonstrating a very high level in puzzlemaking. It is true that you have made many "enemies" with such that amount of changes EACH DAY!

Frankly speaking, I wanted to be the one beating this up, but when I was about to have it all finished and recorded, you posted a new version... I started again, and new version... and yesterday I was at the end of v1.4, with the 2 cubes in the room, having already thought-out of the final solution [spoiler](I knew I had to place the reflectocube pointing the laser beam angled agaisnt the wall in the upper room because I planned to fall down through the long shaft into the mini-room behind the grill and portal on the floor to the laser target for opening the main room's door, and portaling through that door to the final surface near the exit door), I was just dealing with the fliing, which I already figured out that had to do with the outside floor white surface[/spoiler]... but I didn't have more time to finish it and anyway you have just uploaded the solution, and later a new version 1.5!!!... this has made me giving up and also get frustrated because I've spent many hours in this!

If I may, my advise is: try to upload it first into the WIP section, or find some beta-testers BEFORE releasing the map in the Single maps section. This is incredibly useful to find out gaps and unintended solutions that you were not able to find yourself, or that you never even imagined that was possible... give it a think.

In fact, for this map, it has been demonstrated, or better: stated!, how creative people can be in Portal. Due to the fact that most of us are really obstinate, when we're stuck we try crazy maneuvers to beat it.

Anyway, I liked much the map (all the versions). Mostly because it's a twisting puzzle! Congratulations!

Thanks for mapping.

EDIT: you have leaks in the map. [spoiler]One I detected is located around the env_portal_laser in the upper small room (the one with the light bridge, etc. etc.) below the glass panel; and another near the outside button (the one that deactivates the filler). Check out[/spoiler]

Quote from jonatan on September 28, 2011, 7:10 am

I did try it out against people before releasing it and the changes are VERY few in each update. Maybe I should have used 1.03, 1.04 etc. Really the puzzle stands almost identical with the first released version. It is true one wishes that you can find ALL the bugs beforehand but in practice this is not possible until you have released it unless you are very lucky. Thanks for reporting the leaks. Will look into it.

Quote from Saturn on September 30, 2011, 12:36 pm

Great solution. Dunno what to say about why we all found it to be so difficult, but i will say this:

1. The 'hints' don't take out of the puzzle at all. I was still unable to solve it before watching the vid. You don't have to worry about them giving the puzzle out. It seemed people knew what to do ( [spoiler]fling to the top in the laser room while still being able to redirect the laser with portals[/spoiler]) but they couldn't just figure out the way to do it.

2. The actual solution isn't that easy to execute. Even after watching the vid it tooke me numerous times to do [spoiler]the fling and the cube-throw[/spoiler]. Don't get me wrong, i don't want you to change it.

3. I suspect that people were psychologically drained out after they did the first main room puzzle. They got the laser cube in place, the door opened and they thought that they conquered the puzzle only to get to a road-block. Then they realized there's an upper room to deal with it which proves not to be straightforward. So it's like they already gave the puzzle as much as they could or thoght they need to do. They were ready to be done with it.

My suggestion would to better mark the fact that there is an upper room that works into the main puzzle. The numbering does aid that. You could even remove the numbering alltogether and just have a clear arrow pointing up next to the narrow shaft the cubes drop from.

Hope this helps.

Quote from SmackDowN on September 30, 2011, 7:50 pm

Yea i agree with saturn, and I love how we know what to acheive but can't figure out how. It took me a while before i figured the solution I've shown on the screenshots of my previous post. Also, about the numbers, they arent necessary but as Saturn said once again, an arrow would be indicative enough. I suggest a blood painted arrow next to the shaft leading to the upper room, and adding atmosphere details like "the cake is a lie" or something similar painted with blood in the 2nd laser room, adding even more to the fact that we know what to do but have no clue on how to acheive it, making it look even more impossible (maybe at the location the red X was in version 1.4, which would be an hidden clue)!

Quote from xdiesp on October 2, 2011, 4:07 pm

What a letdown, I remembered your previous Quadro map and never would I have realized that all those exploits and forced solutions we were happily bringing forth were actually your idea of a puzzle. To squeeze the player through the cracks of a normally functioning level isn't a puzzle - at most it's evasion, but even so you're not avoiding turrets: only normal mechanics, by employing ugly gameplay (self defeating...).

I completed the level in the intended way, even cutting short the second part with a lucky step on a cube (never went upstairs. And it felt cheap, indeed I thought I was breaking through a masterfully difficult map with the worst of cube throws and skips - while burning neurons to get it properly. That wasn't the case: smearing the puzzle was actually the solution. Sigh, no go.

Quote from ColSarge on October 12, 2011, 11:44 am

Some great ideas- but I feel they were all forced into each other.
I got far, but didn't bother finishing it when I started to feel like I was just searching for exploits over and over. There is hardly any direction.
You can make a puzzle solvable, without lowering your desired difficulty, that should be the goal.

My suggestion- since the puzzle seems to be completed in part, put a check point system that lets the player know when they've completed a part, and should not backtrack to make sure they didn't miss part of the solution. Like with the two cubes, you have to get them both up above first. Use logic relays (enable and disable) along with triggers to make specific checkpoints that work only when the player has reached certain conditions.

Also, it helps very much to use glass walls. They aren't always ideal for optimization, but it helps the player when their vision isn't too restricted, and they can see other parts of the puzzle- it puts less focus on them memorizing where everything is, so they can think more with portals and spacial reasoning.

Quote from macko68 on October 14, 2011, 5:04 am

Jonatan first of all I really admire your work and will eagerly await for new releases. Quadro was great and Enigma well had great potential.

For me it all started impressive with the idea of cubes falling into fizzler being a brilliant one. The numbers as indicators are great as well as the map title. The atmosphere is amazing and getting to upper level is also awsome.

Being said that however I think that afterwards I felt dissapointment and frustration. When I figured that I had to throw the cube I felt discouraged (as I`m not good at it and use only when desparate). I find cube throwing on a cheap side and not "clean". Upstairs even watching your vid I was unable to execute the manouver for like 10 min. This is not fun.

I know that you wrote this is for hardcore players but for me this was over the top. Still as wrote before eagerly awaiting your new map

Quote from jonatan on October 14, 2011, 6:50 am

I doubt I will make any more maps. People does not seem to appreciate my idea of what a difficult puzzle is. The cube fling was a bit too technical I agree, but for the rest there are no really difficult to execute maneuvers. Just problem solving. People seems to prefer easy hand-held maps though which I'm not interested in making.

Quote from pedmacedo on October 16, 2011, 8:26 pm

Amazing map, the hardest I ever played in portal 2 till now, keep up the good work!! (Still trying to solve it)