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Idea for progressive development...

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I'm still kinda unclear about what exactly this would accomplish. It seems like you're trying to do two or three things at once:
- Compile regular "best of" map packs
- Provide a lot more feedback from testers to mappers (multiple nested polls, etc)
- Enable revised versions of previous maps to be released with less confusion.

Yes? At least these three things, and maybe some others. All laudable goals, but you really haven't explained how they fit together or what the priority should be among them. My point is that it's confusing, and it would probably be a lot less confusing if we tackled these separate problems, er, separately.

The other thing that concerns me about your idea is I think it involves the whole community in making decisions about what's best for a map, kind of regardless of what the mapper himself thinks, and it also (if I understand correctly) gives them the means to enforce their opinions by voting whether to include or exclude a map from the "best of" packs.

I think that would lead to a lot of bad "design by committee" decisionmaking. Perfect example: Shmitz's map Accident Prone. There was a pretty big split between people who loved the map, including the new "tetherball" element, and those that couldn't figure out the tetherball or just hated it because it wasn't in the official Portal levels. I fear that if Accident Prone had been put through this process, Shmitz might have been pressured into nerfing or removing that puzzle. That would be a shame.

Cr00ked.

The best maps (not just the winner) from each month's mapping contest will be packaged into a monthly map pack.

This may be what you're looking for in the "best of" idea.

As for attempting to weed out WIPs that aren't ready for release, well, there's no easy way to do that given the current framework. The best way is to have each release have its own thread (done) and have people comment on the map after they play it (usually done) and for a potential downloader to skim the thread and look for stuff like "Why does the invisible zombie keep killing me" to know if its a good map or not.

Essentially, this place is at a spot in the spectrum, the two ends of which I'll label Slashdot and Digg. Slashdot is moderated and only the select few items the moderators pick from the hundreds they wade through get posted. With Digg, everything gets posted, and some of the popular stuff ends up being on the front page.

This forum tends towards the Digg side, because it has the requisite self-moderation necessary. I think the system works okay as it is.

"Games are made out of smaller games ? turtles all the way down, until you hit the game that is so trivial and stupid it isn?t deserving of the name." --Raph Koster

well the re-releasing idea is mainly for those who want to make a really good map, but are new to hammer, and will work at it until it is good. they can keep it in the wip, but the feedback isn't concrete. when they think its ready they can release it, but what if they want to go back and make it better?

rating requirements are only for the map pack, if all the users vote, no ones strange opinion would hold sway and shift the votes their way. All maps should be rated imo. But I do think that people should be able to take these ratings in hand to go back and fix what people thought were the shortfalls of the map, a rating shouldn't be final if the author wants to improve the map. an improved map, is improved content for everyone.

as to the wip being voted on before released... its more like, does the map have a clear beginning and end? are there bugs or errors everywhere? does the map have lighting? all this 'should' be entertained in the wip area, so if they weren't, and the map is "released" it will either

A) fail in ratings
or
B) be played by other people before release who can tell him if he needs to work on it more or not...

its mainly for the maps that spring from nowhere, its just an idea I had, im not a disciple for it or anything... in fact it would affect me more than most since I rarely release beta versions :P

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As long as all publicized maps (released and wip as well) have working BNS files I'm happy.

Have anybody had any luck in reverse engineering the BSZ (Bonus Map Zip) file format so that map installation could become even easier?

Look for SSkillz bonus map pack in the releases section, it's an Epic release.

?But there?s no sense crying over every mistake.
You just keep on trying till you run out of cake!?
Player1 wrote:
Have anybody had any luck in reverse engineering the BSZ (Bonus Map Zip) file format so that map installation could become even easier?

Read the sticky about it.

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Okay, finally waded through this huge thread. My responses aren't to anything specific, and I'm not singling anyone out.

As Shmitz, Hober, and Paul have said, I dislike the idea of having the community vote on everything, from which maps should go in a Best-Of pack, to what WIP maps can become a full RELEASE. As a very long time mapper, I know that trying to go the socialist way of allowing everyone to have an equal say in stuff, especially reguarding someone's work, is a bad move. Say I am making a map, and I feel that I have completed it and it is done, then that is that. If I want to release it as a WIP for people to pick apart and give suggestions, I am going to do that. if I wantto release it as a RELEASE, then I'm going to do that too.

Artesia, I understand your point of view of thinking that things can always be improved upon, and labeling something as a Release does etch it in stone is a bit daunting, but that really is the whole point and purpose -of- releasing something. Looking back at Source Chariots, there are lots of things I wish I could fix up, and if I wanted to I could, but I'm not going to. Granted part of this is my personal opinion, but the point is that if you don't ever feel comfortable making any of your maps an official RELEASE, then don't. It's your choice.

As for the Download Database, I am only human and the only PHP programmer in me and f0rkz little circle owning these websites. The software is also EXTREMELY hard to try and modify, but trust me when I say that I really really want to, and I may wind up making my own software at some point. I chose the software because it integrated with phpBB, and that was really important to me so that all of our already registered users could upload their maps. Eventually the Download DB will be more extensive, and provide more information, and be easier to search, and so on. Until then, give it some time since I only have some much of it to work with.

Quote:
Also, I find the download page littered with things like Button and Door Tutorial and Ball_launcher_example, which are great, but aren't really maps they're more of a tutoral.

As a side note about that, I plan on making a subcategory for Tutorial maps, since I have gotten that complaint from a few other people also. Keep an eye out on the Download DB for the changes.

While I am at it, I might make a "Featured Maps" or a "Community Spotlight" subcategory with the Best of the Best maps, so that people can find the top-rated maps easier and faster, as well as contest winners, and so on.

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as I said im not attached to any of these ideas, in fact I'm fine with the way things are. I was just proposing things to stir discussion. As with all brainstorms, some ideas might be good, but some also might be bad. I was just throwing things out there :P

[insert visually obtrusive graphic or witty comment here]
msleeper wrote:
I know that trying to go the socialist way of allowing everyone to have an equal say in stuff

Uhm that's got nothing to do with socialism... Anyways kinda drifting off-topic...

msleeper wrote:
Read the sticky about it.

Whut which one? There's a sticky about the BNS scripts, but I couldn't find anything about BSZ...

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