Quote from MasterLagger on October 31, 2011, 9:58 am

Spam Nugget wrote:

Oh and in regards to putting puzzle elements underground when they 'shouldnt be', who cares? A good puzzle is a good puzzle. Stuff continuity.

Well said.

Quote from jonatan on October 31, 2011, 1:11 pm

In my opinion the following points is what makes a good puzzle. They probably does not represent the opinion of the average gamer though. Also should be stated I have broken my own rules a couple of times in my own maps. Anyway here goes my own ten golden rules of what makes a good portal puzzle:

1. The map should bring something new. The solution should be creative and fun.
2. No hidden information or areas. Everything in the puzzle should be clearly defined and marked up with indicator lights.
3. Make the puzzle small or clearly divided into parts. Best is if you can see the whole puzzle from all places.
4. The map should contain multiple elements that can be combined in multiple ways at different times. Don't make the level linear.
5. No pointing in the right direction. Signage which is telling you what to do belongs to a tutorial. The fun part is to find out what to do.
6. The solution should be hard to find. The more difficult the better. As a mapmaker this probably requires careful planning out the map on paper before implementing it.
7. The solution should be easy to execute. If a maneuver requires more than one or two quicksaves it is probably too difficult to execute.
8. A good puzzle only have one main solution. Advanced technical solutions bypassing the puzzle should be avoided and cut out by extensive play testing.
9. The level should run smoothly and contain as little bugs or glitches as possible.
10. No unnecessary fluff. All effort put into graphics, ambient sounds, speech, texturing, lightning etc is better put to make a fun, interesting puzzle.

Quote from beecake on October 31, 2011, 2:00 pm

jonatan wrote:

In my opinion the following points is what makes a good puzzle. They probably does not represent the opinion of the average gamer though. Also should be stated I have broken my own rules a couple of times in my own maps. Anyway here goes my own ten golden rules of what makes a good portal puzzle:

1. The map should bring something new. The solution should be creative and fun.
2. No hidden information or areas. Everything in the puzzle should be clearly defined and marked up with indicator lights.
3. Make the puzzle small or clearly divided into parts. Best is if you can see the whole puzzle from all places.
4. The map should contain multiple elements that can be combined in multiple ways at different times. Don't make the level linear.
5. No pointing in the right direction. Signage which is telling you what to do belongs to a tutorial. The fun part is to find out what to do.
6. The solution should be hard to find. The more difficult the better. As a mapmaker this probably requires careful planning out the map on paper before implementing it.
7. The solution should be easy to execute. If a maneuver requires more than one or two quicksaves it is probably too difficult to execute.
8. A good puzzle only have one main solution. Advanced technical solutions bypassing the puzzle should be avoided and cut out by extensive play testing.
9. The level should run smoothly and contain as little bugs or glitches as possible.
10. No unnecessary fluff. All effort put into graphics, ambient sounds, speech, texturing, lightning etc is better put to make a fun, interesting puzzle.

I like it

Quote from baca25 on October 31, 2011, 6:06 pm

jonatan wrote:

10. No unnecessary fluff. All effort put into graphics, ambient sounds, speech, texturing, lightning etc is better put to make a fun, interesting puzzle.

Don't like this rule. This is where the mapper can get so creative. Makes a difference between just making a puzzle, and creating art. Plus, it looks better and the player likes the map more.

Quote from jonatan on October 31, 2011, 6:29 pm

Quote:

Don't like this rule. This is where the mapper can get so creative. Makes a difference between just making a puzzle, and creating art. Plus, it looks better and the player likes the map more.

I would say a good puzzle is art but I get your point. It should be the icing on the cake though. A common mistake I see in many maps is they obviously spent a lot of time of making their map pretty, but it lacks in other areas (points 1-9). For me as a player, I don't care about music, fancy hallways or animations. I got enough of that already in the official maps. I just want a clean challenging puzzle to solve.

Quote from Brainstone on October 31, 2011, 7:03 pm

1. The already mentioned aha-moment
2. Good use of Portals, what chickenmobile already said

Also, unlike everyone else, I don't hate laser puzzles. Call me a witch and burn me, but I like Math and so I like laser puzzles. Why is everyone picking on these laser puzzles? Good ol' laser puzzles.

Quote from Marise on November 1, 2011, 2:59 pm

Many people on these forums like to extol the virtues of difficult puzzles. And obviously for them, a real head-scratcher is what makes a good puzzle.

But I would argue that in general, a good puzzle should make the player think without being too hard. In the actual game, there is a delicate balance, which I'm certain the devs were carefully striving for. Most players will get frustrated and give up if a puzzle is taking a long time to work out.

I am not saying hard puzzles are bad, but if we're looking for tips on making "good puzzles" in general, I think that mappers should strive for a balance between too easy and too hard.

Quote from beecake on November 1, 2011, 3:39 pm

Oh i just Got an idea. If anybody knors the game "rush hour" or on an iPhone "unlock it". What if you took on of the easy levels and Got the solution of it. Then make a puzzle with the same logic (if i do that, then i Can do this, and then...) just an idea... I dont know if it Will work

Quote from NuclearDuckie on November 2, 2011, 8:17 am

baca25 wrote:

Don't like this rule. This is where the mapper can get so creative. Makes a difference between just making a puzzle, and creating art. Plus, it looks better and the player likes the map more.

I agree. The reason I ended up downloading [SP] Discouragement Encouragement was purely because the graphics and ambience were so gorgeous. I can appreciate maps either way, but it's when the two qualities complement each other that makes me really love them.

Spam Nugget wrote:

Oh and in regards to putting puzzle elements underground when they 'shouldnt be', who cares? A good puzzle is a good puzzle. Stuff continuity.

Wait, people actually try to envision custom maps inserted into the game's storyline? The way I pictured it, every map simply had its own continuity. :/

spongylover123 wrote:

I really miss those energy balls

Me too, man. They were about the only testing element that didn't force portals to be a one-way beam-director that were only useful for one thing at a time. The pellets did have their problems though, especially when they would bounce off some sharp angle and fling around everywhere.
I think I have seen some Portal 2 maps utilise them, however.

chickenmobile wrote:

I think that lasers should not be made into a puzzle at all. They should be used for the sake of activating one thing at a time, even make it so the laser has to be blocked one time and unblocked later to do the puzzle correctly.

Noooo! Embrace the potential! I know trying to solve puzzles like [SP] Stockpile is a right pain in the arse, but I feel this bizarre attraction to them, especially when they end up forming geometric patterns or at the very least I find a clever way to break them.

Oh God, someone needs to make a laser puzzle involving mirrors and prisms. And apertures! That's real science for you.