Forum | Thinking With Portals

#31 · September 18, 2012, 11:27 am

Quote from Mr Waterhandle on September 18, 2012, 11:27 am
About changing the geometry, what I meant was that the biggest reason for messing up coming out the wall portal to place that portal on the floor and gain momentum, is that you don't come out of the wall portal straight down, always with a teensy bit momentum, which might make you fling over the place where you place the floor portal. I figured that if you make the wall stick out a bit on the top, the player will hit that bit, and fall straight down, so that they'd be lined up to fall through that portal. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that. It might look a bit weird, but it's probably preferable over players screwing up a few times what should be a simple action.

Yeah if you were to increase the height there, you'd have to increase the height of the entire map, so I'm not sure if it's worth it.

I remembered something else. Watching your solution video, it's not required, but that's how I did it: in the third room, when using light bridges to get to the floor button up high, I didn't use the sideways jump while placing the bridge trick, I simply placed the bridge on the then straight angled panel on the right. the panel there has reversed portal placement helpers for some reason (probably to prevent exploits with the light bridge later on), so the bridge exits from the top of the portal, which helped me there. However you don't know in advance that portal placement will be upside down, so you may or may not want to make that a bit clearer. I think if the player can figure that out beforehand, that might make them feel somewhat clever doing that.

I don't think catching the cube would be that boring with a longer delay, I think what made me get stuck there was that the delay is so short (along with not realizing that the bridge would go under the glass, but I should've, as I probably saw it before), but it's your call. You could also make that platform with the pedestal button a bit bigger, so it's clearer you can stand on it (this felt slightly ninja to me watching sicklebrick's video).

Also, watching your solution video, when you do catch the cubes, getting over there, the tiny platforms made me mess up jumps into the water repeatedly. They are generally not that bad, but the final jump I messed up a few times. I don't know if it was lag or whatever. I think it'd be better if some more leeway was allowed there, Portal has some platform elements, but it was never really meant for precision jumping with your regular jump.

About changing the geometry, what I meant was that the biggest reason for messing up coming out the wall portal to place that portal on the floor and gain momentum, is that you don't come out of the wall portal straight down, always with a teensy bit momentum, which might make you fling over the place where you place the floor portal. I figured that if you make the wall stick out a bit on the top, the player will hit that bit, and fall straight down, so that they'd be lined up to fall through that portal. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that. It might look a bit weird, but it's probably preferable over players screwing up a few times what should be a simple action.

Yeah if you were to increase the height there, you'd have to increase the height of the entire map, so I'm not sure if it's worth it.

I remembered something else. Watching your solution video, it's not required, but that's how I did it: in the third room, when using light bridges to get to the floor button up high, I didn't use the sideways jump while placing the bridge trick, I simply placed the bridge on the then straight angled panel on the right. the panel there has reversed portal placement helpers for some reason (probably to prevent exploits with the light bridge later on), so the bridge exits from the top of the portal, which helped me there. However you don't know in advance that portal placement will be upside down, so you may or may not want to make that a bit clearer. I think if the player can figure that out beforehand, that might make them feel somewhat clever doing that.

I don't think catching the cube would be that boring with a longer delay, I think what made me get stuck there was that the delay is so short (along with not realizing that the bridge would go under the glass, but I should've, as I probably saw it before), but it's your call. You could also make that platform with the pedestal button a bit bigger, so it's clearer you can stand on it (this felt slightly ninja to me watching sicklebrick's video).

Also, watching your solution video, when you do catch the cubes, getting over there, the tiny platforms made me mess up jumps into the water repeatedly. They are generally not that bad, but the final jump I messed up a few times. I don't know if it was lag or whatever. I think it'd be better if some more leeway was allowed there, Portal has some platform elements, but it was never really meant for precision jumping with your regular jump.

#32 · September 18, 2012, 11:57 am

Quote from josepezdj on September 18, 2012, 11:57 am
Thanks again for your detailed explanations

Mr Waterhandle wrote:

what I meant was that the biggest reason for messing up coming out the wall portal to place that portal on the floor and gain momentum, is that you don't come out of the wall portal straight down, always with a teensy bit momentum,

I understood what you meant... but I was trying to explain to you that there's a "funneling" effect in Portal consisting in this (please try): if you come out from the wall portal and (relatively) quickly look down and place the floor portal, you'll not have any problem with entering into the floor portal correctly... I assure you (it's kind of tricky, but that's how the game is).

Mr Waterhandle wrote:

Watching your solution video, it's not required, but that's how I did it: in the third room, when using light bridges to get to the floor button up high, I didn't use the sideways jump while placing the bridge trick, I simply placed the bridge on the then straight angled panel on the right. the panel there has reversed portal placement helpers for some reason

Ha, I don't like that kind of stuff, believe me, but the reason for that is absolutely justified, [spoiler]that portal placement helper must be upside down because it heps you in the final step when you get out from the flipping panel on the wall and fly to the main button, otherwise, you would get out upside down! This has to do as well with the previous white panel where the paralell briidge ends [/spoiler] I know this panel on the wall my help though, but I never cared about that as it doesn't really exploit any main puzzle in there

Mr Waterhandle wrote:

the tiny platforms made me mess up jumps into the water repeatedly. They are generally not that bad, but the final jump I messed up a few times. I don't know if it was lag or whatever. I think it'd be better if some more leeway was allowed there,

Indeed that part was a bit wider before but it allowed a couple of undesired shortcuts, so I removed many blocks and left only those. I thought of adding a few more later, but never did. I may do though thanks for pointing out.

Again, thank you so much for the feedback! it's really helpful

Thanks again for your detailed explanations :thumbup:

Mr Waterhandle wrote:

what I meant was that the biggest reason for messing up coming out the wall portal to place that portal on the floor and gain momentum, is that you don't come out of the wall portal straight down, always with a teensy bit momentum,

I understood what you meant... but I was trying to explain to you that there's a "funneling" effect in Portal consisting in this (please try): if you come out from the wall portal and (relatively) quickly look down and place the floor portal, you'll not have any problem with entering into the floor portal correctly... I assure you (it's kind of tricky, but that's how the game is).

Mr Waterhandle wrote:

Watching your solution video, it's not required, but that's how I did it: in the third room, when using light bridges to get to the floor button up high, I didn't use the sideways jump while placing the bridge trick, I simply placed the bridge on the then straight angled panel on the right. the panel there has reversed portal placement helpers for some reason

Ha, I don't like that kind of stuff, believe me, but the reason for that is absolutely justified,

Spoiler

that portal placement helper must be upside down because it heps you in the final step when you get out from the flipping panel on the wall and fly to the main button, otherwise, you would get out upside down! This has to do as well with the previous white panel where the paralell briidge ends

I know this panel on the wall my help though, but I never cared about that as it doesn't really exploit any main puzzle in there :wink:

Mr Waterhandle wrote:

the tiny platforms made me mess up jumps into the water repeatedly. They are generally not that bad, but the final jump I messed up a few times. I don't know if it was lag or whatever. I think it'd be better if some more leeway was allowed there,

Indeed that part was a bit wider before but it allowed a couple of undesired shortcuts, so I removed many blocks and left only those. I thought of adding a few more later, but never did. I may do though :thumbup: thanks for pointing out.

Again, thank you so much for the feedback! it's really helpful :notworthy:

useful tools and stuff here on TWP :thumbup:

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

#33 · September 18, 2012, 4:21 pm

after have played more 200 sp_maps, this is the best map ever :thumbup:
here my video with EASTER EGGS :lol:
i think i am the first

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CngjZhTnW8k

#34 · September 18, 2012, 6:09 pm

Congratulations comoros94 !!! :thumbup: Yay! Indeed you are the first posting the solution for the easter egg, good job!

Thank you so much for playing it and for saying all that nice stuff about it! :notworthy:

Regarding your solution I must say only one thing:

Spoiler

you were a bit lucky that the reflector cube didn't fall into the goo after pressing the main button! that is not exactly the way it has to be done, but ey! you did it! The way you got the regular cube is totally intended though :thumbup:

Anyway, that tiny unintended bit is very easy to fix, I'll do in the next update altogether with some other stuff

I saw you are running the game with the shader detail set to medium, I'd recommend you, ofc if your computer runs smooth, to set it to High at least. The difference (overall wih regards to the water) is very significative.

Thank you so much again dude! :thumbup:

And remember: it's still pending a mini-game consisting in finding the 3 hidden overlays!!! go and take a picture of them! :wink: (... HINT: they are near the area were you laid down.....)

useful tools and stuff here on TWP :thumbup:

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

#35 · September 18, 2012, 8:23 pm

Your map was very hard and I enjoy to play it. I would rate 12/10 but we can only rating 5/5 :lol:
I dont know why half of the people thumbs down your map on workshop community.

I notice some things :

Spoiler

- I notice while I am flinging to put the reflector cube through the laser, the lightbridge appears and disappears because of the cube can continues moving a little after I drop it. If you need a video to understand, say me ^^.
- If you fail your fling in the part3 to take back the regular cube "eatter egg time", you are trapped
. make a "180? wall" to come back up a wall
- If the reflector cube is destroyed in the room2 we have to come back to take it again and for some people that may be annoying ^^.

About the reflector cube , you mean it should be destroyed after pressing the main button ?

My computer is not good , as you saw my video has not a good quality also i have to play with all medium settings otherwise my computer become very warm. I hope to buy new one.

#36 · September 19, 2012, 6:41 am

Quote from josepezdj on September 19, 2012, 6:41 am
comoros94 wrote:

Your map was very hard and I enjoy to play it. I would rate 12/10 but we can only rating 5/5
I dont know why half of the people thumbs down your map on workshop community.

Thank you so much for your support! About the community, well, you may prefer hard maps but it looks like maybe hard maps aren't so popular out there... Or maybe ppl prefer other kinds of difficulty. I must admit this map is based in the flinging ability, apart from thinking with portals and logic. I do prefer twisted maps based in tricky usage of the elements or twisted positioning of portals, but this map came out this way... I've got some other ideas I do like much more than those in this map, to be frank

comoros94 wrote:

[spoiler]- I notice while I am flinging to put the reflector cube through the laser, the lightbridge appears and disappears because of the cube can continues moving a little after I drop it. If you need a video to understand, say me ^^.[/spoiler]

Well, I know there is something happening in there, I knew it all the time (maybe it is some kind of weird bug in the game that appears when you mix the laser cubes with the bridges... I don't know) and that's why I specifically cared about it a lot. I introduced several tricky hammer resources in order to make sure that the cube will stay at least 1 or 1.5 seconds there on the bridge: I force it to stay I told you as I told HMW: maybe you didn't ungrab the cube quickly right when it made the laser hit the catcher... I'll revise that again though

comoros94 wrote:

[spoiler]- If the reflector cube is destroyed in the room2 we have to come back to take it again and for some people that may be annoying ^^.[/spoiler]

True, but that's why I placed several savepoints in room 2 in order to let the player return to a previous status if that happens. However, I could add a ceiling mini room in chamber 2 that spawns the cube if it got fizzled! happier now?

comoros94 wrote:

[spoiler]- If you fail your fling in the part3 to take back the regular cube "eatter egg time", you are trapped[/spoiler]

Hmmm.... I don't really know where exactly do you mean. Also my concept of "trapped" is when the player cannnot even kill himself, and that cannot happen anywhere in the map. If you fail that fling yuo'll fall into the goo and die, [spoiler]if you mean trapped in the 2nd laser beam area... you can shoot a portal there in the floating platform to appear somewhere else, or die I could introduce a savepoint though (that currently doesn't exist) in the ledge where you stand before the fling...[/spoiler] However, as the easter egg part is supposed to be harder than the normal run and it's optional, I don't feel like making it much more easier than it actually is now...

comoros94 wrote:

[spoiler]About the reflector cube , you mean it should be destroyed after pressing the main button ?[/spoiler]

[spoiler]I mean that it should normally end up in the goo by itself (although I never really cared about it, so good find on your side! ) as it falls from a certain height and to me it was very probable that it ends up destroyedinto the goo; and I mean that obviously, I didn't intended the player go get that cube from where you did, but performing a different (and consolidated) maneuver than to simply wait up for the cube laying on that platform...[/spoiler]

I kindly urge you to replay the map in the next version and try again the easter egg run, it will like you much more I'll try to update it within a couple of days.

EDIT

====================================================================
MAP UPDATED TO v2.0.3 (check the changelog to see the changes included)
====================================================================

comoros94 wrote:

Your map was very hard and I enjoy to play it. I would rate 12/10 but we can only rating 5/5 :lol:

I dont know why half of the people thumbs down your map on workshop community.

Thank you so much for your support! :thumbup: About the community, well, you may prefer hard maps but it looks like maybe hard maps aren't so popular out there... Or maybe ppl prefer other kinds of difficulty. I must admit this map is based in the flinging ability, apart from thinking with portals and logic. I do prefer twisted maps based in tricky usage of the elements or twisted positioning of portals, but this map came out this way... I've got some other ideas I do like much more than those in this map, to be frank

comoros94 wrote:

Spoiler

- I notice while I am flinging to put the reflector cube through the laser, the lightbridge appears and disappears because of the cube can continues moving a little after I drop it. If you need a video to understand, say me ^^.

Well, I know there is something happening in there, I knew it all the time (maybe it is some kind of weird bug in the game that appears when you mix the laser cubes with the bridges... I don't know) and that's why I specifically cared about it a lot. I introduced several tricky hammer resources in order to make sure that the cube will stay at least 1 or 1.5 seconds there on the bridge: I force it to stay I told you as I told HMW: maybe you didn't ungrab the cube quickly right when it made the laser hit the catcher... I'll revise that again though :thumbup:

comoros94 wrote:

Spoiler

- If the reflector cube is destroyed in the room2 we have to come back to take it again and for some people that may be annoying ^^.

True, but that's why I placed several savepoints in room 2 in order to let the player return to a previous status if that happens. However, I could add a ceiling mini room in chamber 2 that spawns the cube if it got fizzled! :thumbup: happier now?

comoros94 wrote:

Spoiler

- If you fail your fling in the part3 to take back the regular cube "eatter egg time", you are trapped

Hmmm.... I don't really know where exactly do you mean. Also my concept of "trapped" is when the player cannnot even kill himself, and that cannot happen anywhere in the map. If you fail that fling yuo'll fall into the goo and die,

Spoiler

if you mean trapped in the 2nd laser beam area... you can shoot a portal there in the floating platform to appear somewhere else, or die

I could introduce a savepoint though (that currently doesn't exist) in the ledge where you stand before the fling...

However, as the easter egg part is supposed to be harder than the normal run and it's optional, I don't feel like making it much more easier than it actually is now... :wink:

comoros94 wrote:

Spoiler

About the reflector cube , you mean it should be destroyed after pressing the main button ?

Spoiler

I mean that it should normally end up in the goo by itself (although I never really cared about it, so good find on your side! :thumbup:

) as it falls from a certain height and to me it was very probable that it ends up destroyedinto the goo; and I mean that obviously, I didn't intended the player go get that cube from where you did, but performing a different (and consolidated) maneuver than to simply wait up for the cube laying on that platform...

I kindly urge you to replay the map in the next version and try again the easter egg run, it will like you much more :thumbup: I'll try to update it within a couple of days.

EDIT

====================================================================
MAP UPDATED TO v2.0.3 (check the changelog to see the changes included)
====================================================================

useful tools and stuff here on TWP :thumbup:

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

#37 · October 11, 2012, 4:45 pm

This was a terrific map - I loved the unique solution in getting out of room 1 and also salvaging the cube . . . but Room 2 blew me away. So many twists, turns.

At the end of Room 2 there is that ultimate fling and last-second prayer of a shot to actually hit the small, ceiling panel as you are sailing under and past it at a high rate of speed. It took me about 15 attempts, as the shot has to be perfectly timed. It may not have any Ninja Moves . . . but that was Ninja Timing for sure.

Then the grand final when you hit the button and make your way to Room 3.
It was actually a very convoluted method which I did not expect. Initially I did what anyone would do -

Spoiler

I went straight to Room 3 !!!!! But noooo . . . then I had to return back and get two cubes

that were parked in vary inconvenient locations.
Awesome.

It was such a cool way to discover then ending. First you see the pathway being shown on two Video screens. Then the videos rotate and highlight an apparent useless but cool attic room with a floating, electrified sphere. It was not until the last 2 minutes that it finally dawned on me.
That way cool room with the floating sphere is actually a clue/predecessor of the final way way way cool room with the floating hibernation Pod ! ! Wow that was like some spy novel the way it all intertwined so perfectly and sneakily. FINALLY - I got the damn Companion cube, But what do I do now ? I was not sure what to do with it. I went into the adjoining way way way cool room and tried to throw it up and into the sleep pod - LOL. Then, thank God . . . an incinerator appeared outta nowhere.

Genius, dude - sheer genius.

#38 · October 24, 2012, 6:17 am

Thank you so much for such a super nice review Doc :notworthy: I'm glad I was not wrong when I recommended you to give it a go to v2.0! :thumbup:

PCdoc wrote:

Then the grand final when you hit the button and make your way to Room 3.
It was actually a very convoluted method which I did not expect. Initially I did what anyone would do

Spoiler

- I went straight to Room 3 !!!!! But noooo . . . then I had to return back and get two cubes

that were parked in very inconvenient locations.
Awesome.

Well, I liked the idea of the surprising ending:

Spoiler

the player goes straight up to the end thinking he's done with the map... and BAM! he discovers there is a turn on ther left with the companion cube symbol indicating there's a companion cube around :wink:

I know this forces the player to play the map again... but since

Spoiler

now he needs to manage solving the main puzzle and also to get both cubes to the end corridor... the run must be slightly different

I'd like to have more feedback from the players who has tried the map... I'm checking and there have been continuous downloads but no comments at all ... Any feedback is highly appreciated! whether you finish or you don't finish the map :wink: And in the case someone needs any kind of hint, please do not hesitate to tell me :thumbup: Thanks in advance!

I may let this month finish before posting the video solution for the run with the easter egg included plus the pictures of the hidden overlays dedicated to my beta-testers.

useful tools and stuff here on TWP :thumbup:

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

#39 · October 24, 2012, 10:25 pm

Wow, what a map, really like the aesthetics, wonderful skybox. Took me quite a while to figure out the first puzzle but when I did I felt very clever, which is exactly how any good map should make the player feel. I am terrible at flinging puzzles though, definitely got the heartrate going cause one misfire means redoing it xD Got in to the (beautiful) large room in the second puzzle got the laser cube with me and got hopelessly stuck for so long source recorder gave up and so did I, will try fresh tomorrow but very interesting so far. Only minor glitch I noticed is when I go through a portal in the really big room with the water, it plays a splash sound when I enter the portal.

Here is my blind run of the first bit of the puzzle, like I said it randomly cuts off though, can you only record for 22 mins? I had a steam message so went offline if that caused it, you didnt miss anything though besides me running around, throwing the cube in frustration and it bounced perfectly in to the water so I followed :lol:

EDIT acutally I think its cause I quickloaded >_< kept messing up a jump so loaded the save back when I was up there. I will know for next time xD

Reconstruction---Dilapidation--- My Workshop

#40 · October 25, 2012, 4:09 am

Thank you so much LoneWolf for playing it! :thumbup: And thankl you for the great comments :notworthy:

LoneWolf2056 wrote:

Only minor glitch I noticed is when I go through a portal in the really big room with the water, it plays a splash sound when I enter the portal.

LOL... I know! but I don't know what to do about that I hated that sound since the very first version of the map but looks like it simply happens since the floating platforms are so close to the water level. I tried to lower the water level or raising the platforms up but to no avail... I'll continue checking out there for that though! Thanks for pointing out :wink:

I'll watch your demo when I arrive home this evening, thanks for recording!

About the rest of the map... now that you have gone that far, I assure you that you're almost done, what remains is not so difficult so cheer up! :thumbup: Let me give some hints:

- Use 2nd room (the one with the center column) and find there some bit where you can gain momentum for room 3, where you have to fling with the reflector cube a couple of times to activate the bridges.

- There are at least 2 ways to get the regular cube, the easiest is to use the button's bottom support.

- Do not try to carry on the regular cube with you at the time that you get through replacing the bridge... just find out a different way to finally position the cube on the floor_button :wink:

I sincerely think the rest is pretty straight forward. Do not hesitate to post any stuck or whatever other issue :thumbup:

Do not give up! thanks again for testing!

PS: You must know I have your map Dilapidation Part 3 pending to play! I want to continue the series but I'm really busy atm finishing some of my maps and beta-testing some others I'll give you my feedback soon :thumbup:

useful tools and stuff here on TWP :thumbup:

[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

[SP] [Sp] The Second Exodus (v2.0)