Quote from josepezdj on September 19, 2013, 6:03 am

OK, I think all of this will depend on the concept of 'logic' that we consider. Because to be honest, if the meaning of 'logic' needs to be based in the map by Antivector "L-Circuits" I'm afraid I can't share it. My concept of logic is not a map with a lot of lasers, emitters and catchers everywhere, that you even have to draw it in paper previously to be able to map it later >.<

The concept I have for 'logic' is more based in the processes involved in problem-solving, in logical reasoning, to be able to DEDUCT a series of maneuvers or a sequence of steps behind a puzzle... And to be honest, I don't really care if some of those steps are execution ones, ONLY IF there's a logic or deduction process behind Of course I DON'T talk about "ninja maps", I'm not a fan of those either. But there are many funny execution moves in Portal: flinging and momentum is in the game since the very beginning, and to be honest I just LOVED to discover it!

I love puzzles, and I love logic games, therefore if I would need to choose forcedly between voting for logic or execution, I'd vote logic. If not, if I can combine both, I'd vote: both.

My concept of logic is perfectly spreaded into Mevious maps, or HMW, or Gig's, or Azorae's... but hey, also into Greykarel's maps, Chander's or Markiu's >.< ...Can't anyone else see this too?

Please revise:

1. Cage'd

2. Chander's Test 4

3. Ruined Hopes

NONE of those require ninja moves, I'm not a ninja and I can solve them with LOGIC

Quote from lightOfDay on September 19, 2013, 7:30 am

Nailed the point! I certainly agree that it doesn't have to be a straight out pen and paper logic puzzle, and I must say, although it was a well worked map, by the end of "L-Circuits" I wasn't really impressed with the concept.

Quote from RogerL on September 19, 2013, 12:15 pm

AntiVector wrote:

I created this thread and poll to truly gauge which is the more popular problem-solution to this problem-solution problem.

The only thing you can "truly gauge" with a poll based on a false dichotomy is how much divisiveness there is in the community. It looks like the answer is: not much.

Maps that require some difficult execution are made, by and large, by mappers who are themselves highly skilled and agile players. They can't unlearn these capabilities, and so their maps are naturally going to reflect this high level of skill. Asking them to dumb down their maps so that you can complete them without anxiety is tantamount to asking them to cripple themselves. And if they should accede to your wishes, I don't think you would get a very good map.

I would have thought that the best response to a map you find too difficult to execute would be to move on to another map. Not to make a poll about it.

Quote from El Farmerino on September 19, 2013, 12:22 pm

Yeah, HMW and josepezdj pretty much hit the nail on the head with this one - too much of either can be a bad thing, but there's room for both.

HMW wrote:

The things I try to aim for regarding timed operations in my own maps are:
- the player can work out exactly what they need to do before starting the timed part of the test,
- the time limit is not unreasonably short and
- the cost of repeated failure is low. (I.E. no death and no laborious reset procedure.)

Spot on, especially with the last point. I do believe logic should always be the primary focus, but a clearly deducible and not overly difficult bit of quickfire portalage is always satisfying, provided the penalty for failure is kept to a minimum.

If I had to put it numerically, I'd say an 80:20 Logic:Execution ratio is the sweet spot - most of my favourite maps (and, indeed, most of my own) are balanced something like this.