Quote from bmaster2000 on August 17, 2011, 6:51 am

Ugh i got my hopes up until after download i realised it was a mp_coop file. Be nice to add it into the description ill just have to wait for some playthrough videos to see this one.

Quote from jamesf141 on August 17, 2011, 8:33 am

bmaster2000 wrote:

Ugh i got my hopes up until after download i realised it was a mp_coop file. Be nice to add it into the description ill just have to wait for some playthrough videos to see this one.

Firstly, it was in the coop section of uploads, so I don't know what you're complaining about. Secondly, you do realise it is possible to play coop maps in splitscreen?

Now, my experience of this mappack:

Naturally, I loaded mp_coop_acces_unlimited_1 first. Now, I didn't "finish" this map. There was no indication of what I was meant to be doing, and at times it was so dark I had to turn mat_fullbright on just to see if where I was going was a path, dead end or trap. I made my way (as Atlas, leaving P-body by the spawn because two players were completely unnecessary for what way I had managed to make before giving up) through to the test chamber storage area. Firstly, I could make portals underneath panel models, and if I jumped off I could get caught on a player clip or invisible brush. Not fun.

I then made my way (solo) into a test chamber. My God. Misaligned textures were the least of my issues. The whole roof of the chamber was one great big massive leak, and even here there seemed to be no objective.

The visuals were less than impressive. Large, most definitely. But making a map gigantic does not amount to making a map good. Even here, there were whole testchambers floating unsupported.

So I thought I'd load up the universal room next. What is the first thing my eyes are met with? Misaligned textures. EVERYWHERE. A small corridor of misaligned white tiles too small to make a portal on the walls of. You can make them on the floor, but it's still no use.

Then I enter a pitch black, save for one tiny red light, room. Which, as far as I can tell, did nothing. At all. Either my ability to work out what I'm supposed to do in a map (not the best of my traits, but usually good enough to spot when there is a portalable surface that I can reach) has been thrown out the window, or this map had no purpose at all.

Finally, I load up the third map. Everything in it LOOKS THE SAME. I could hardly tell where I was, let alone what I was meant to do. Also, I saw purple and black chequers under the pneumatic diversity vent.

I disliked this mappack of three a lot. there was no readme, so I did not know which order to play them in. The visuals were unimpressive, repetitive and, at times, had BADLY misaligned textures. There were no hints as to what I was meant to do at ALL, and in the universal room it's possible to get stuck if both players enter the room without a portal outside it. I think. And even if you do do that, I still can't work out what I'm actually meant to do next.

PLEASE fix these issues. There are no puzzles - I really can't see why this is, as you say, 'not a playground.' Apart from the fact there aren't any elements to muck around with in it, so it doesn't even make that standard. This could be a good mappack, but the visuals need work, the gameplay needs work... everything about it needs reworking. I'm not saying start from scratch, but some things must be changed. Use signs to give the players an indication of what they should be doing. Work on the chambers in the map so that a) they have some kind of clear purpose and b) there isn't a massive leak in the ceiling.

If you want this to provide people with 'hours of fun' you are going to need to do a lot of work on this, but it IS possible.

P.S. How can you claim that this is a hub itself if the transitions aren't working?

Quote from vlastav on August 17, 2011, 12:16 pm

All what you wrote is true, but i have to argue.

Frist I have to thank you for this long post beacuse feedback is very important,at least for me. how i said in description it is under heavy development, and i am working on it every day.

Aggred lights suck and i have to do them a bit more, mainly i dont like invisible lights and i know there are lots of them, but visulatiacion will be the last thing i do , so sorry. For me is more important the function than the style when in editor.

Next i want to say is that i know about these bugs you said and taht bug with invisible wall and "nodraw" .(Btw if it was leak the map would not start ,you know ,so it isnt a leak).

There are no "test chambers" yet there are areas which you can explore and there will be more. This is very early release. So then you are maybe asking: Why i posted it when it is so horrible and it isnt working and there is bug next to next bug. That is because i cant find all those bugs myself. And i have testers which say me what to change and improve too and id like to hear ideas from you ,community,how to make map even better.

The great thing you said was there werent any signs , tahts is a very good reminder because i didnt reliase that others dont know map so good...

The Universal Room is idea only for co-op because one of your is "Chell" and the second one is GLaDOS. i have to make sings to tell player where to go when they want to choose their part. Universal room is room made only from panels which you can control ,plus you can contols other things like: lights,music,cubes,puzzle elements, soon i add too moving panels to it wont change only from back and white and pop out buttons but it will change the room itself (i mean the shape of the room).

Next,if you read the description i already saied that transitions arent working but i liked an idea of making custom hub .And this map dont have storyline yet,how you probably noticed.

The chamber with turrets with that wrong roof, I just added for my testers cause they wanted to do some turrets maze.You werent suposed to find it, yet. And one more thing about universal room. it is one of my most complicated project and one of the biggest.
It is realy fun when you know how to use it (yes i will add more signs).

And the main bug of this map wasnt that panels werent working , or that the corridor is too small, but it was the map itself, at the start it was 2 times bigger with 5 times more functions but there were so many entities that the map wont load.So i had to do the harderest thing that mapper cant do and that is delete. I had to delete half of room and so close all the effects, maybe thats why you feel it so unfinished and untidy.

So again thank you for the post and dont worry, those bugs you menoited are already known and i am working on V 2.0 which will have finaly some puzzles. And pls dont delete my 4-months of work project. Like all other maps it get better,nicier,and nonbuggier.

Quote from Lostprophetpunk on August 17, 2011, 12:52 pm

vlastav wrote:

So then you are maybe asking: Why i posted it when it is so horrible and it isnt working and there is bug next to next bug. That is because i cant find all those bugs myself. And i have testers which say me what to change and improve too and id like to hear ideas from you ,community,how to make map even better.

Then post it in the WIP section, rather then the released Co-op maps section.

There are plenty of resources around the forum, to help your better your mapping skills. You can find some here and also here. There are plenty of lighting, as well as mapping tutorials online...you just need to use the wonderfully powerful tool that is Google to be able to find it.

I was going to download this map and play it with a friend. However after reading the review of jamesf141, that will never happen. You need to move this to the Work in Progress section. Also...just because you had to make your map 'smaller', doesn't excuse the fact that there are loads of textures not aligned.

Another thing...if you want to add something in just for the playtesters, and not for the actual players of the map...don't include it in the map...then there is no chance of it being found.

Just to further on a point that jamesf141 made...if people are palying your map, and have no intention of what to do, or there is no intended solution...then they will become very annoyed...very quickly.

Quote from Hober on August 17, 2011, 1:12 pm

Lostprophetpunk wrote:

vlastav wrote:

So then you are maybe asking: Why i posted it when it is so horrible and it isnt working and there is bug next to next bug. That is because i cant find all those bugs myself. And i have testers which say me what to change and improve too and id like to hear ideas from you ,community,how to make map even better.

Then post it in the WIP section, rather then the released Co-op maps section.

This. Download moved.

Quote from jamesf141 on August 17, 2011, 3:33 pm

vlastav wrote:

Next i want to say is that i know about these bugs you said and taht bug with invisible wall and "nodraw" .(Btw if it was leak the map would not start ,you know ,so it isnt a leak).

There are no "test chambers" yet there are areas which you can explore and there will be more. This is very early release. So then you are maybe asking: Why i posted it when it is so horrible and it isnt working and there is bug next to next bug. That is because i cant find all those bugs myself. And i have testers which say me what to change and improve too and id like to hear ideas from you ,community,how to make map even better.

The great thing you said was there werent any signs , tahts is a very good reminder because i didnt reliase that others dont know map so good.

...

Next,if you read the description i already saied that transitions arent working but i liked an idea of making custom hub .And this map dont have storyline yet,how you probably noticed.

The chamber with turrets with that wrong roof, I just added for my testers cause they wanted to do some turrets maze. You werent suposed to find it, yet.

Yes, ok, I know it's not technically a leak. And maps should start with leaks, as far as I'm aware, it's only lights that don't work when they are present. I'm merely referring to the nodraw issue as a leak because the two problems look identical. And that doesn't change the fact that it is an error that needs fixing.

And a room that I wasn't supposed to find? It was the only part of the map that actually gave me a vague sense of what I was meant to be doing, or that I was even going the right way.

The idea of making a custom hub is a good one; it's been suggested that there should be a hub for the highest rated maps in the summer mapping initiative (*still really want to see that*). But that doesn't change the fact that this map was anything but a hub.

The most important thing in mapping is the player(s, if we're talking co-op.) "Not knowing" that the player doesn't know the map as well as it's creator is like "not knowing" that everyone at your dinner party is vegetarian, and cooking beef stew; a massive mistake (and not only because beef stew is fairly dull for a dinner party.) To sum up everything I've said here, and in my previous "review" (for want of a better word, although "essay" comes close -.-), you NEED to consider the player. Consider what the player will think when playing your map. Consider what they'll try to do, and try and make life easy for them. We all like a challenge, but a challenge has to have a clear objective; I'm sorry, but without an objective of any kind this map is nothing more than a work of art. And if it's a work of art, you seriously need to align those textures.