[Tip]Making a Hard Puzzle
Quote from Darkylight on May 15, 2012, 4:23 pmHey people, are you making a map and you wanna get it a bit challenge? So I have a tip for you.
First of all you need to know the steps to pass your map, I'm going to put an example for explain it better.
If you have a cube, a pit, a funnel and at the end, the button that opens the exit, you only need to go through the funnel with the cube and put it on the button. But... If you wanna do it harder what can you do for it? You need to prevent the player to go through to go to the button, or to get the cube or to go to the funnel. For example, you can make an emancipation grid in middle of the funnel, now the cube cant pass it. What do you need to pass it? Deactivate it or jump it.
Now you can make a new element in your map to do it, a button, repulsion gel to jump it... And if you wanna do it harder, now, you need to activate the funnel, and you need a new room for it or a new mechanism.
I think, if you repeat this every time you wanna make it harder, you'r gonna make it hard.
Example steps:
1 http://puu.sh/uV7f
2 http://puu.sh/uV7w
3 http://puu.sh/uV82
4 http://puu.sh/uV8aAnd more... Remember to test every time you finish a new mechanism.
Hope it helps
Hey people, are you making a map and you wanna get it a bit challenge? So I have a tip for you.
First of all you need to know the steps to pass your map, I'm going to put an example for explain it better.
If you have a cube, a pit, a funnel and at the end, the button that opens the exit, you only need to go through the funnel with the cube and put it on the button. But... If you wanna do it harder what can you do for it? You need to prevent the player to go through to go to the button, or to get the cube or to go to the funnel. For example, you can make an emancipation grid in middle of the funnel, now the cube cant pass it. What do you need to pass it? Deactivate it or jump it.
Now you can make a new element in your map to do it, a button, repulsion gel to jump it... And if you wanna do it harder, now, you need to activate the funnel, and you need a new room for it or a new mechanism.
I think, if you repeat this every time you wanna make it harder, you'r gonna make it hard.
Example steps:
1 http://puu.sh/uV7f
2 http://puu.sh/uV7w
3 http://puu.sh/uV82
4 http://puu.sh/uV8a
And more... Remember to test every time you finish a new mechanism.
Hope it helps
Quote from youme on May 15, 2012, 5:05 pmIt looks like you inverted the colours of those images.
Seriously though, you need to actually have some portal surfaces. I've found that by using almost all white, you can make very challenging puzzles because instead of thinking how the mechanisms fit together, you suddenly have to think about all the possible different space-warping permutations and find which one is correct.
I now design by several rules:
- Always show the exit at the start
- Provide access to all the puzzle elements at the start or at least show them
- Use as much white as possible, metal only where necessary and for style choices
It looks like you inverted the colours of those images.
Seriously though, you need to actually have some portal surfaces. I've found that by using almost all white, you can make very challenging puzzles because instead of thinking how the mechanisms fit together, you suddenly have to think about all the possible different space-warping permutations and find which one is correct.
I now design by several rules:
- Always show the exit at the start
- Provide access to all the puzzle elements at the start or at least show them
- Use as much white as possible, metal only where necessary and for style choices
Quote from mZLY on May 16, 2012, 5:51 amI like to use mostly black, non-portalable, surfaces for the most part. Add the white panels which are necessary to complete the test and then throw a few more white panels in to a) make the room look nicer and b) act as a decoy and make the player think about their portal placement. If you use too many white surfaces you end up with a test that's easy to exploit.
I like to use mostly black, non-portalable, surfaces for the most part. Add the white panels which are necessary to complete the test and then throw a few more white panels in to a) make the room look nicer and b) act as a decoy and make the player think about their portal placement. If you use too many white surfaces you end up with a test that's easy to exploit.

Quote from josepezdj on May 16, 2012, 6:29 ammZLY wrote:I like to use mostly black, non-portalable, surfaces for the most part. Add the white panels which are necessary to complete the test and then throw a few more white panels in to a) make the room look nicer and b) act as a decoy and make the player think about their portal placement. If you use too many white surfaces you end up with a test that's easy to exploit.I agree completely. The more white surfaces, the more ninjas will come your way! On the other hand, too less white panels may give too much clues to the player about the way in certain areas...
I agree completely. The more white surfaces, the more ninjas will come your way! On the other hand, too less white panels may give too much clues to the player about the way in certain areas...
Quote from Darkylight on May 16, 2012, 9:18 amI'm not asking help in this post o.o, I'm giving you an idea for make hard puzzles.
And I like black surfaces o.o, hard puzzles with mostly white are more harder.
I'm not asking help in this post o.o, I'm giving you an idea for make hard puzzles.
And I like black surfaces o.o, hard puzzles with mostly white are more harder.
Quote from Lpfreaky90 on May 16, 2012, 9:33 amWhile adding steps to your puzzle makes it harder I don't think it's the best option.
THE best option to make your map is to use unique solutions:
for example:
looking at the image already tells you the solution. (I've seen this one at least 10 times in the last 50 pti maps I played)
(from gladoscube's advanced gel 01)
Here it's a lot less obvious that you have to fling. Although the angled panel will most likely grab your attention. After you got the required elements it makes sense.This is an unique solution and it's also not immediately visible.
A series of obvious actions to get to the obvious fling is not the way to create a harder puzzle. You will need to think outside the box.@youme: Provide access to all the puzzle elements at the start or at least show them
Personally I prefer to show the player the test element when he/she needs it. Often people need it twice in my map so it doesn't make it more easy.
A puzzle with: a laser, a cube, a hard light bridge, blue gel, orange gel and some fling parts is very overwhelming if you start in a room with that all. If you break it up in smaller pieces it's a lot easier to handle for the player while not necessarily making it easier.
While adding steps to your puzzle makes it harder I don't think it's the best option.
THE best option to make your map is to use unique solutions:
for example:
looking at the image already tells you the solution. (I've seen this one at least 10 times in the last 50 pti maps I played)
(from gladoscube's advanced gel 01)
Here it's a lot less obvious that you have to fling. Although the angled panel will most likely grab your attention. After you got the required elements it makes sense.
This is an unique solution and it's also not immediately visible.
A series of obvious actions to get to the obvious fling is not the way to create a harder puzzle. You will need to think outside the box.
@youme: Provide access to all the puzzle elements at the start or at least show them
Personally I prefer to show the player the test element when he/she needs it. Often people need it twice in my map so it doesn't make it more easy.
A puzzle with: a laser, a cube, a hard light bridge, blue gel, orange gel and some fling parts is very overwhelming if you start in a room with that all. If you break it up in smaller pieces it's a lot easier to handle for the player while not necessarily making it easier.
Quote from Logic on May 16, 2012, 9:39 amDarkylight wrote:I'm not asking help in this post o.o, I'm giving you an idea for make hard puzzles.And I like black surfaces o.o, hard puzzles with mostly white are more harder.
They are not trying to help you, they are simply adding things to this thread.
One thing about your main post. That's not precisely the way to make a hard puzzle. The funnel is completely useless in the final version, making it silly to even have it on the map. You can't just confuse player by adding a ton of unnecessary elements to the room.
And I like black surfaces o.o, hard puzzles with mostly white are more harder.
They are not trying to help you, they are simply adding things to this thread.
One thing about your main post. That's not precisely the way to make a hard puzzle. The funnel is completely useless in the final version, making it silly to even have it on the map. You can't just confuse player by adding a ton of unnecessary elements to the room.
Quote from Spam Nugget on May 16, 2012, 9:50 amWell, you can, but its likely to make it an irrtitatign puzzle nota hard one...
Well, you can, but its likely to make it an irrtitatign puzzle nota hard one...

I think in terms of boolean variables. Generally, it makes things easier.

Quote from josepezdj on May 16, 2012, 10:09 amDarkylight wrote:I'm not asking help in this post o.o, I'm giving you an idea for make hard puzzles.And I like black surfaces o.o, hard puzzles with mostly white are more harder.
I got you already, I only wanted to share my opinion related to hard maps content... indeed I think mZLY only wanted to compliment your tip with his/her own point of view.
About your tip, it's much appreciated. I suppose more or less, all of us that likes hard maps do the same... it is all about making the chain of events more difficult in each step. But anyway, I think the key is not right there but in making use of a puzzle element in a way no one did before.
And I like black surfaces o.o, hard puzzles with mostly white are more harder.
I got you already, I only wanted to share my opinion related to hard maps content... indeed I think mZLY only wanted to compliment your tip with his/her own point of view.
About your tip, it's much appreciated. I suppose more or less, all of us that likes hard maps do the same... it is all about making the chain of events more difficult in each step. But anyway, I think the key is not right there but in making use of a puzzle element in a way no one did before.
Quote from youme on May 16, 2012, 11:54 amAlso of note: Water doesn't make things harder.
It can be used effectively to make an area you can't pass, but it should be rarely used as punishment for executing a manoeuvre incorrectly. The same with deadly lasers.
If you have a difficult fling to make and just dump people in water if they make a mistake and it takes them more than one or two attempts, they're just going to quit.As far as avoiding white because people can find clever solutions, that's a pathetic excuse! That's why we playtest maps and remove solutions when people find them. The only difference with the PTI is that now regular players are playtesters too. (Provided they're decent enough to leave feedback, players that don't can jog on)
Also of note: Water doesn't make things harder.
It can be used effectively to make an area you can't pass, but it should be rarely used as punishment for executing a manoeuvre incorrectly. The same with deadly lasers.
If you have a difficult fling to make and just dump people in water if they make a mistake and it takes them more than one or two attempts, they're just going to quit.
As far as avoiding white because people can find clever solutions, that's a pathetic excuse! That's why we playtest maps and remove solutions when people find them. The only difference with the PTI is that now regular players are playtesters too. (Provided they're decent enough to leave feedback, players that don't can jog on)